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96 Tracker runs like crap
08-29-2017, 08:24 PM (This post was last modified: 08-29-2017 08:29 PM by prnitz.)
Post: #1
96 Tracker runs like crap
Bought a 96 standard tracker five speed 1.6 L as a project to refurb with my son. It's had a full tune up, seafoam treatment in the oil, gas and intake. I replaced the throttle position sensor, and mass air flow sensor twice actually, new fuel filter, and maybe some other stuff I'm forgetting. It will run at high RPMs but when you put in the clutch and come to a stop sign it will either die or just sit there barely running. Once you get the RPMs back up again you can move in first second and third gear, not as well as they should run but okay I guess, once you put it in 4th it starts decelerating and in 5th it will barely run. But if you're just sitting still and letting it idle up at its own pace you can gently keep giving it more gas and it will go up to 7,000 RPMs and seems like the motor is strong. I'm not a mechanic but it's been in a local shop here with very experienced mechanics multiple times with a lot of money invested and we're not making any real progress. Does this sound familiar to anyone? I'm not sure how this forum works but if you have any experience with what I'm dealing with and would like to contact me my email address is nitz16@mchsi.com. thx, prnitz
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08-29-2017, 11:15 PM
Post: #2
RE: 96 Tracker runs like crap
greetings and welcome !
bad idle. now power ,the motor is not strong, 5th proved that.
sure this is common complaint. both low power and wont idle correctly.
there are lots of things to check....

is this a barn found car?, when was last time it was a good daily driver, 1 month , 1year 3 or 10 years ago (bad fuel happens as does 10 micron screens clog up in the injectors. from same)
History matters if fuel was allowed to go bad, otherwise below is answers to why.

1: Full tune up with good spark wire set, cap/ rotor , right?
2: spark timing checked of way off the cam belt has slipped they do that at 60k miles. this car is not DIS, distrbutorless ignition its HUMAN SET , WE CHECK IT FIRST.
3: on all new kicks, (to the shop) check the crank front 17mm bolt, in 5th gear,hand brake set, wheels chocked, for CW thightend to 94ft/lbs, if found loose BINGO..
4: compress tests pass, this is first never before any MAF, or TPS or any sensor. EFI parts are LAST , engine is FIRST , call basics.
5: a stuck open EGR main valve, will kill idle dead, 400 rpm but will not wreck wideopen throttle. Performance. BUT I ALWAYS CHECK IT LIKE THIS COLD
REACH BEHIND #4 INTAKE RUNNER, SEE EGR MAIN, WITH INDEX FILTER, PUSH THE RING THERE ON THE Diaphragm. it goes in 1/4inch release it and it goes thunk if not its jammed. (BINGO)
if stuck closed ingore it for now, EGR is fixed LAST unless stuck open and if true its a NOW FIX first.

6: check engine lamp on, key on and out running, if not out running where is your scan data? DTC errors.?
7: cat melted, see my web page in the search box type cat tests.

end short list, low power and misfiring, Im sure it is, has 50 causes, may are bad engine, for sure if compression fails. that is way the actual engine is tested first.

on same page type in the search box compression
see
My 97' pulls 185 PSI min. dead cold. (a new head) later and hot it does 195 PSI. Old 100k mile engine, now with new oil rings, new crank and new head.
at sea level (500' actual) if not at sealevel I need to know that or use my altitude table to correct above. easy, ask
below is 150 is a sick engine, at SL.
all 4 weak and same means the belt slipped, 80PSI is common reading on that, with the belt ignored. this is because the crank cog out runs the the cam cog (slips) and then cam retards
this retarded cam then KILLS COMPRESSION DEAD and the full 95HP of the engine.
you get less than 1/2 power, with the belt slipped.

the spark is timed with the timing freeze jumper inserted in the DLC#2 connector under hood
many young mechanics never heard of OBD1 spark, ever.
if you dont freeze the timing the spark jumps like mad and confuses the young guys... so... do that.
if the spark is hugely retarded then the cam did slip.


You car is identical to 2 of mine, both restored.


http://www.fixkick.com/compressiontest.html



spark ( fast track section) spark has many ways to fail but this shows setting it quickly)

http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/16v-pr...fast-track

http://fixkick.com/
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08-29-2017, 11:15 PM (This post was last modified: 08-29-2017 11:28 PM by fixkick.)
Post: #3
RE: 96 Tracker runs like crap
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/tests/cat-con-tests.html

if the G16 engine EFI system is allowed to run in limphome mode, (suz fail safe)
the EGR packs in carbon fast
the CAT melts. (UNBURNED FUEL lands there, it glows cherry red and melts, and blocks the exhaust path and power drops, if allowed to progress it the engine will not start again. and failed compression tests.

they all do that. ignoring the CEL is the cause. in all cases. (99%)

does the CEL glow key on not started if not , use your scan tool
push scan, gee the CEL is on, the light is burned out, or seller removed it or wrapped it in black tape, (so common and fools nobody)\
use a scan tool, scan the ECU.
if there are Dtc ERRORS, REPORT THEM.

the best Cat test IMO opinion is the vacuum gage tests.
the lazy needle is Classic cat melt, covered all good, schools (demo) lots of you tube examples of this.
the CAT melt thing is like removing 2 engine cylinders, then 3 then for 4 and it now is dead, the engine ends up, no longer can pump air.

a scan tool can be had for $20 , a good one is hand held and a real nice one. far cheaper that MAF (a fraction of the cost)
is this.
here is an innova 3160 in action ( i have it in a mode to fail EVERYTHING possible) to make the best DEMO.

http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/Authority/A_F....html#Ford

this test is using my ford OBD2 simulator.
it thinks its running engine but it is not, I fooled it so I an test scan tools and demo failing sensors.
this 96 ford is dumb it has no extended DTCs that would fail if I used a 2004 ECU.
i simulated EFI sensors here, RPM , spark, MAF, TPS< IAT and ECT,

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08-30-2017, 05:11 AM
Post: #4
RE: 96 Tracker runs like crap
Thanks for the info. I believe they also checked or replaced the CAT but I'm going to forward this all to the mechanics at our shop.


(08-29-2017 11:15 PM)fixkick Wrote:  greetings and welcome !
bad idle. now power ,the motor is not strong, 5th proved that.
sure this is common complaint. both low power and wont idle correctly.
there are lots of things to check....

is this a barn found car?, when was last time it was a good daily driver, 1 month , 1year 3 or 10 years ago (bad fuel happens as does 10 micron screens clog up in the injectors. from same)
History matters if fuel was allowed to go bad, otherwise below is answers to why.

1: Full tune up with good spark wire set, cap/ rotor , right?
2: spark timing checked of way off the cam belt has slipped they do that at 60k miles. this car is not DIS, distrbutorless ignition its HUMAN SET , WE CHECK IT FIRST.
3: on all new kicks, (to the shop) check the crank front 17mm bolt, in 5th gear,hand brake set, wheels chocked, for CW thightend to 94ft/lbs, if found loose BINGO..
4: compress tests pass, this is first never before any MAF, or TPS or any sensor. EFI parts are LAST , engine is FIRST , call basics.
5: a stuck open EGR main valve, will kill idle dead, 400 rpm but will not wreck wideopen throttle. Performance. BUT I ALWAYS CHECK IT LIKE THIS COLD
REACH BEHIND #4 INTAKE RUNNER, SEE EGR MAIN, WITH INDEX FILTER, PUSH THE RING THERE ON THE Diaphragm. it goes in 1/4inch release it and it goes thunk if not its jammed. (BINGO)
if stuck closed ingore it for now, EGR is fixed LAST unless stuck open and if true its a NOW FIX first.

6: check engine lamp on, key on and out running, if not out running where is your scan data? DTC errors.?
7: cat melted, see my web page in the search box type cat tests.

end short list, low power and misfiring, Im sure it is, has 50 causes, may are bad engine, for sure if compression fails. that is way the actual engine is tested first.

on same page type in the search box compression
see
My 97' pulls 185 PSI min. dead cold. (a new head) later and hot it does 195 PSI. Old 100k mile engine, now with new oil rings, new crank and new head.
at sea level (500' actual) if not at sealevel I need to know that or use my altitude table to correct above. easy, ask
below is 150 is a sick engine, at SL.
all 4 weak and same means the belt slipped, 80PSI is common reading on that, with the belt ignored. this is because the crank cog out runs the the cam cog (slips) and then cam retards
this retarded cam then KILLS COMPRESSION DEAD and the full 95HP of the engine.
you get less than 1/2 power, with the belt slipped.

the spark is timed with the timing freeze jumper inserted in the DLC#2 connector under hood
many young mechanics never heard of OBD1 spark, ever.
if you dont freeze the timing the spark jumps like mad and confuses the young guys... so... do that.
if the spark is hugely retarded then the cam did slip.


You car is identical to 2 of mine, both restored.


http://www.fixkick.com/compressiontest.html



spark ( fast track section) spark has many ways to fail but this shows setting it quickly)

http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/16v-pr...fast-track
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08-30-2017, 05:17 AM
Post: #5
RE: 96 Tracker runs like crap
find a shop that can fix a 1992 toyota corolla
its almost the scam car (EFI + engine)
same technology
but most shops never seen one in 10 years so , forgot OBD1, long long ago.
or never seen one ever....

getting old cars fixed , find an old mech.
see?

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08-31-2017, 09:23 AM (This post was last modified: 08-31-2017 09:59 AM by fetcher.)
Post: #6
RE: 96 Tracker runs like crap
A 96 should be OBDII

In my opinion, Seafoam and similar products are snake oil. http://www.sueschauls.com/Seafoam_motor_treatment.pdf
IPA is Isopropyl alcohol

I you have paid lot of money to mechanics who can't solve the problem, you need to drop them
and go to a competent mechanic.

Throwing new parts at a car in the hopes of solving a problem is never the way to go,
run tests to pinpoint the problem. If you have the tools, most answers can be found here in the
repair pages or forum.
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08-31-2017, 10:30 AM
Post: #7
RE: 96 Tracker runs like crap
(08-31-2017 09:23 AM)fetcher Wrote:  A 96 should be OBDII

In my opinion, Seafoam and similar products are snake oil. http://www.sueschauls.com/Seafoam_motor_treatment.pdf
IPA is Isopropyl alcohol

I you have paid lot of money to mechanics who can't solve the problem, you need to drop them
and go to a competent mechanic.

Throwing new parts at a car in the hopes of solving a problem is never the way to go,
run tests to pinpoint the problem. If you have the tools, most answers can be found here in the
repair pages or forum.

x2 snake oil, as seen on TV
sorry i mixed 2 posts, but the words still work grab the other OBD tool. (marked OBD2 not 1)
the OBD2 tool will not tell you the engine is bad.
i has more monitors yes.
but all basic engine tests are the same, spark timing, done the same way, and compression, and vacuum tests
its the same engine,
the OBD2 adds a CKP sensor and 2 more O2 sensor.

x2 fire him, if he cant fix it ,the find another.
most will not ever read a web post, you hand them they get all in huff, and run off, even with facts.
like that 17mm bolt loose, and timing freeze steps.
and the very very very queer EGR system same as a 1992 Corolla, in fact the vacuum modulator is identical.

one gal here, her mech, says his $15,000.00 scan too CAN SCAN ANY CAR EVEN A 91, OOPS CANT. YES 96. UP.
they wont listen to facts like that. then blunder about, and say that give up and $500 bill for no change.
One gal here gone to 10 shops ,not one can calibrate the TPS, even with the SUZ page in their hand.
sad... and she gets 15mpg due to that.

again, owner, is the CEL glowing key on, then goes out running
all owners can do that, simple tests.
no no
yes, yes
yes,no (oops its got error codes called DTCs' even P0300s for random misfire... or lots more, be a shame to miss those.
most good shop will scan it and print out the errors. for zero cost.
for good customer relationship,

good luck. sorry for my 92 FOPAH.

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09-02-2017, 12:01 AM
Post: #8
RE: 96 Tracker runs like crap
Still, it's nice to know that the 1992 Corolla vacuum modulator is identical.
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09-02-2017, 02:55 AM
Post: #9
RE: 96 Tracker runs like crap
the point is only
find a mech that fixed cars (in the 90s ) and that toyota, 1.6L work almost the same way. (OBD1 then OBD2)
they made more corollas than any other car on earth. 40million
so most shops know the ropes on them.

20yo +25yo car= 44+year old mechanics, might know that. see? or if smart (LOL) forgot all that,?

the EGR is super complex on this car, as ways toys.
ECU to VSV to Vauum to modulator to EGR main and the silly CAT backpressure is used to modulate the EGR.
then in 1999 all that bad ended or 1996 sport J18 engine, twincam , the started using motor driven EGR and is all pure software drive now. (simple)

Id start at the 17mm bolt (set it to the new 1996 spec, 94fl/bls, do that the second own any G16
then compression tests. done throttle blocked open a bit, (wot) spark plugs out, and let it peak, x4.
We do that for 2 reasons, 1: to see if its bad, and 2 to see if the engine has a future....
see?

if no future, we might sell the car.
most folks shy away from putting $2000 new engine in a $50 car , dead cars have very low value, unless super lucky seller)
worse on dead A/t transmission can test engine to see if engine has full power. so is huge crap shoot on buying a dead car like this...
things to ponder buying any dead car. (or with 1/2 power)

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