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+--- Thread: Thermostat seal issue 1997 Sidekick 1.6 (/thread-thermostat-seal-issue-1997-sidekick-1-6)
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Thermostat seal issue 1997 Sidekick 1.6 - 3Waggintails - 03-27-2019
I have read the info on the stats issue with Sidekicks. I have a 1997 kick w/ 1.6, 5spd manual, 4 door. The rubber seal on that thermostat is huge! Looks like a hollowed- out Hockey puck. Have yet to find replacement. Obviously the deep well B01 - 4mm but this is larger. Got stant 48028 stat and Felpro 35432 rubber seal....mines still bigger! Because I removed it thinking I had correct replacement ( b4 I found this site) guess I pinched seal. Now seeping coolant from housing. Stat is good. Just routine maintenance that has become a fubar and nightmare!
RE: Thermostat seal issue 1997 Sidekick 1.6 - 3Waggintails - 03-27-2019
(03-27-2019, 05:59 AM)fixkick Wrote: not suzuki J18 engine right? not the DOHC engine right,
ok , the 96 for sure uses the deep well thermostat base housing, (in manifold) so buy that. it is a rubber ring and never ever a paper gasket used on the more early cars.
what is bigger I do not understand what you are saying, on any G16B engines.
i guess you are simply asking how to buy just the gasket rubber seal.
then buy 2 so when you mess up no down time, use silicone grease on the seal ,ok?
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/suzuki,1997,sidekick,1.6l+l4,1271539,cooling+system,thermostat+/+thermostat+housing+/+water+outlet+seal,2136
3 holes is wrong paper gasket
1 hole rubber is correct.
Thanks for your reply. Just as FYI, I am female and not a mechanic but was dad's grease monkey for many years. Learned enough to be dangerous. LOL Should be G16 Engine. Although my vin # starts 2S3TE02V0V....It is not the Sport model not 1.8...DOHC (not sure does not say anywhere nor does it SOHC. 2nd owner of car. Got it with 60K on clock. Now has 85 K. Hard time imagining an engine swap was done.
In doing routine maintenance (flush radiator, change hoses, etc.), I figured I would change the thermostat, too. Ordered parts, started work on car and opened the thermostat housing to see this monster gasket inside! Removed it from the intake and compared to what I had... What was in my hand was the 52mm. I put the old one back - no way the new would work. Obviously I rolled or pinched the rubber ring becaue it did not seep before.
I read, thoroughly the post Hard to Find parts, with regard to the stats, changes etc. I got the correct parts based on that info but that rubber ring around that thermostat is huge! It is not the Felpro 35432.
When you say the 96 for sure uses the deep well thermostat base housing (In manifold) what do you mean?
I understand no paper gasket. Was not one installed either. I think this is original STAT, too.
Not issue of how to buy, it's finding the right one. I even went to NAPA and looked at the one for 1.8.....rubber gasket still not large enough, thick enough, etc.
I tried to post a pick here but said file too large.
RE: Thermostat seal issue 1997 Sidekick 1.6 - 3Waggintails - 03-27-2019
Awesome info. I know where to get all of these parts. Have em in hand. 2nd owner of kick. Bought with 60 K on clock. Doubt a swap but anything posible. 52mm thermo way tooo small. With rubber ring still float around moves side to side etc.
You posted pic of where to find the engine serial #. Where is the engine bell mount?
My vin is 2S3TE02V0V.....
Not 1.8 sport model either.
I just want the right seal. Cant post a pic (site says file too big) and stat/ring back in car til I find correct ring.
RE: Thermostat seal issue 1997 Sidekick 1.6 - fixkick - 03-27-2019
oops, you do know the seal is SLIT right?, in the inside edge the stat rim slides into the seal inside slit and makes up a complete object that fits in the well rim, right?
you'd not know that if the last person did all this wrong, using wrong parts, as is so common. (this is TRUE OE FIT !) this.
see me doing that here with correct parts,
https://www.suzukicarparts.com/parts/1997/Suzuki/Sidekick/JX/?siteid=214820&vehicleid=9167&diagram=1410510
if you use paper gasket the thermostat floats madly in the 4mm rim, and will never work right again.... see my frozen kick pages. on why,
best is to tell me the intake stat hole size if it is large like it was new, at 56.5mm 2.23" then we buy parts to match that.
and if you need those parts made by STANT, (a good maker them for sure)
stant 48028 , thermstat + seal.
the stant makers seal only part numbers shows 2.15" size so is wrong, that is THERE error, and is in there catalog showing the wrong seal.
there is seal that fits behind the water pump that must be skipped for this seal, and I see them listed, and is confusing, if seen. yes.
SMP catalog shows no support. (amazing as that is) THE SPEC PAGE IS NOT CLEAR ON SIZES AND USES STOCK PHOTOS, SO AVOID.
GATE is next in my book on part,s let me do them now.,,, quoted, and commented in caps
Thermostat OE Exact Thermostats 33973 OE Temperature, Seal included; 180º
Thermostat OE Type Thermostats 33778 OE Temperature; 180º
Thermostat Seal; Use either gasket or seal to match OE design. Thermostat Seals 33618
Thermostat Gasket; Use either gasket or seal to match OE design. Thermostat Gaskets 33644
-----------
one problem at rockauto.com is there usage of GM partnumbers on listings of suzuki parts, and not suzuki (97 tracker, leakage, problems)
-----------------------
LAST IS FEL-PRO, A top gasket maker.
35432
FEL-PRO 35432 {#1767956B00, 33644, 96067884} Info (the 56b number is Suzuki, the silly 9606 is GM.)
-----------------------
the old suzuki parts list shows that suzuki did not sell just the gasket, (thus the rub)
old P;n was 17600-60813
suzuki then changes P'/N say 7 years ago?
and is now , 1760060814
proof of PN and no gasket for it sold is here hard proof
https://www.suzukicarparts.com/parts/1997/Suzuki/Sidekick/JX/?siteid=214820&vehicleid=9167&diagram=1410510
so buying full and complete thermostat is your best choice, and make sure the OD is 56.5mm not 52.
the full fel-pro should fit, it did on my 97.
no sealants, used, the stat fits in the inner groove slit of the rubber ring, and then fits in the 4mm deep well, that stat is NO 56mm diameter, it fits in the slit and is smaller.
![[Image: 96-stat-mine1w.jpg]](http://fixkick.com/Cooling-engine/96-stat-mine1w.jpg)
RE: Thermostat seal issue 1997 Sidekick 1.6 - fixkick - 03-27-2019
the real confusion is the makers of the thermostat do not spec, the completed assembly size.
that will be ever so slightly larger with rubber ring attached at 57mm or 56.5+ tiny bit more
the actual stat is claimed by many to be 2.04" before ring insertion.
so you need to have matching STAT and ring,
the 92 parts will not fit nor match up
nor will the silly paper gaskets schemes.
Suzuki nor GM sell the ring, they make you buy the whole kit,
AFTERMARKET sellers, sell the ring and get all confused by, 92 year, 96 up and 1.8L and worst yet, add in the water pump large o-rings, in the thermostat pages, how silly is that>
?
note my photo above showing me being cagey there , tilting it up so you can see HOW THIS FITS. no 89 to 92 sidekick uses this part.
RE: Thermostat seal issue 1997 Sidekick 1.6 - fixkick - 03-27-2019
Got stant 48028 stat and Felpro 35432 rubber seal...
the best way to do this is buy the whole thing, a 97 thermostat and rubber ring kit, mixing and matching parts and makers will be pain.
even at the counter put the ring and with ruler, see 2.224 (almost 2.-1/4" ) if yes BINGO
the makers of thermostat feel (i guess) that they have free reign on fit. as the CAR maker (GM/SuZ) sells no seal kits at all so the after-marketeers get a bit wild here.
what you want is OEM exact fit,
there are exceptions here, some cars have corrosion here, (not seen in your photo), and they RTV SILICON glue in the thermostats.(desperation)
RE: Thermostat seal issue 1997 Sidekick 1.6 - fixkick - 03-27-2019
the 1.8L is no good, it is backward flow thermostat, very alien to use here, ever.
not the J20 sister engines, no go. 99 to 2003 and up.
I'm told there are some aftermaket kits (now) that have this odd gasket that is unlike anything SUZUKI ever did,
it has molded as one gasket and thermostat, or is not a rubber ring but this very odd looking thing,,composite material//bla bla,,, FREE REIGN has limits and is not OE FIT. not at all.
If suzuki sold the gasket then we could tell the makers see, it's not a OE fit match?
RE: Thermostat seal issue 1997 Sidekick 1.6 - 3Waggintails - 03-28-2019
Wow! Great Info. Who would have thought a simple thermostat could become so complicated....My stat (probably the original based on miles on car) was and is still functioning correctly. By my trying to be proactive, I have obviously damaged the original seal because I was just going to put new parts in to save labor at my mechanics (they will be doing timing belt water pump, etc. so I thought I'd do the "EASY" stuff - hoses and stat,radiatior flush, new cap, etc.) I have created my own nightmare.
I have rarely ever had to replace a thermostat in any of my vehicles -no need or done by someone else. My only experience has been with the gasket type. This "stock" stat was in the well snugger than dick's hat band! I had to gently pry it up (NOT by the seal but from the top of the stat). Imagine my surprise looking at this thing. My first thought was that black RTV or something had been used to keep the rubber ring on/in place and seal it. Having no experience and seeing that I had the incorect stat and seal in my hand, I had to put the old one back.....again no experience with this so tried to get it back in and had it at an angle like you showed in your picture. Literally went around the top of the thing with the butt end of a screwdriver and tapped/half pounded it back into place! It was checking the next day that I saw coolant seeping at the rear of the housing - bolts were tight so figures I screwed up the seal somehow. Now my nightmare.
Should it fit in that doggone tight? Also I don't recall seeing that little bleeder pin or whatever it's called on the old one but there is one on the stant. Is that an issue other than direction of placement?
My mechanic is hesitant about fooling with it if we do not have the EXACT matching parts. In other words, car will be stuck down there indefinitely if incorrect and can't find it/them.
I wish I had this thing out to measure but afraid of removing it again and not being able to put it back and make do until in the mechanics hands this coming Monday, April 1. It just does not look like the correct gasket (the felpro) even though I have compared comparable brands for the 56.5 mm stat.
Its not that I doubt you or the literature. I can only tell you what I see and have experienced.
I can take the old back out and take my chances but....my lack of experience may cause me to have a major fubar here. How tight does that fit in the well?
Why can't you use the gasket and the rubber ring? Just curious?
RE: Thermostat seal issue 1997 Sidekick 1.6 - 3Waggintails - 03-28-2019
(03-27-2019, 11:37 PM)fixkick Wrote: the 1.8L is no good, it is backward flow thermostat, very alien to use here, ever.
not the J20 sister engines, no go. 99 to 2003 and up.
I'm told there are some aftermaket kits (now) that have this odd gasket that is unlike anything SUZUKI ever did,
it has molded as one gasket and thermostat, or is not a rubber ring but this very odd looking thing,,composite material//bla bla,,, FREE REIGN has limits and is not OE FIT. not at all.
If suzuki sold the gasket then we could tell the makers see, it's not a OE fit match?
Today, 01:58 PM Post: #8
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RE: Thermostat seal issue 1997 Sidekick 1.6
Wow! Great Info. Who would have thought a simple thermostat could become so complicated....My stat (probably the original based on miles on car) was and is still functioning correctly. By my trying to be proactive, I have obviously damaged the original seal because I was just going to put new parts in to save labor at my mechanics (they will be doing timing belt water pump, etc. so I thought I'd do the "EASY" stuff - hoses and stat,radiatior flush, new cap, etc.) I have created my own nightmare.
I have rarely ever had to replace a thermostat in any of my vehicles -no need or done by someone else. My only experience has been with the gasket type. This "stock" stat was in the well snugger than dick's hat band! I had to gently pry it up (NOT by the seal but from the top of the stat). Imagine my surprise looking at this thing. My first thought was that black RTV or something had been used to keep the rubber ring on/in place and seal it. Having no experience and seeing that I had the incorect stat and seal in my hand, I had to put the old one back.....again no experience with this so tried to get it back in and had it at an angle like you showed in your picture. Literally went around the top of the thing with the butt end of a screwdriver and tapped/half pounded it back into place! It was checking the next day that I saw coolant seeping at the rear of the housing - bolts were tight so figures I screwed up the seal somehow. Now my nightmare.
Should it fit in that doggone tight? Also I don't recall seeing that little bleeder pin or whatever it's called on the old one but there is one on the stant. Is that an issue other than direction of placement?
My mechanic is hesitant about fooling with it if we do not have the EXACT matching parts. In other words, car will be stuck down there indefinitely if incorrect and can't find it/them.
I wish I had this thing out to measure but afraid of removing it again and not being able to put it back and make do until in the mechanics hands this coming Monday, April 1. It just does not look like the correct gasket (the felpro) even though I have compared comparable brands for the 56.5 mm stat.
Its not that I doubt you or the literature. I can only tell you what I see and have experienced.
I can take the old back out and take my chances but....my lack of experience may cause me to have a major fubar here. How tight does that fit in the well?
Why can't you use the gasket and the rubber ring? Just curious?
RE: Thermostat seal issue 1997 Sidekick 1.6 - fixkick - 03-28-2019
the jiggle pin goes front, the engine is tilted front high to tail low, that why the jiggle bleed pin (or just bleed hole (tiny) can burP air out of the water jackets. OK that is its purpose.end.
those are precision machined and milled surface and using sharp metal tools on that surface is a big NO-NO, use plastic scrappers on aluminum. OK? ,
if you need matching and prefect parts, did you ever consider SUZUKI"? IT does fit, and has the right gaskets, for sure.
the thermostat has 7 year life span, so says the top dog at STANT, in his great, video factory STANT review . so,,,, depends on thermal cycles, daily driven or only to church only on Sunday.
"It just does not look like the correct gasket (the felpro)'
I told you susuki does not sell only a gasket, and Felpro and others have invented a THERE OWN MAGIC here, lacking any help from SUZUKI .
again: part ID : 11 , see it ,buy this kit? its SUZUKI parts to fit only your Suzuki Engine.
https://www.suzukicarparts.com/parts/199...am=1410510
Some makers have there own DESIGN here, 3rd party, aftermarket sellers,..... you are on your own there, see way?
it's not a FACTORY SPEC, exact fit part, that also means mixing up Factory parts here with aftermarket parts is path way to failure, and gee even an engine overheated and a nice warped head as a door prizes.... (cars are not simple)
you asking how to do it wrong, leaves me , blank.
it fits tight, "interference fit, after all how can the rubber seal up on the machined outer surface if it is not tight?, the drawings are from SUZUKI I did not make them. Red ink is my commentary.12 years ago and can be wrong TODAY, (I dont own stant nor felpro, no me,)
you do understand that the the coolant is under pressure right? 10 -14PSI pounds per square inch. It wants to leak (read that?, your mech knows.)
Q2:?
using top gasket,and rubber? (answers by me are factory parts, I cant buy 20 thermostat from 20 makers and try them all every 3 months to see if they are correct or now bad) Not saying it can work only that I sure can not try them every year. (evolution happens in the aftermarket world.)
see it again: B/W is suzuk', work.
http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/gallery/3_28_03_19_7_44_41.jpeg
the rubber ringed, slotted inside rubber ring SEALS UP , on 3 PLanes.
1: bottom machined well lip.
2: side machined well.
3: and last on the top OUTLET CAP machined surface, (tell me how rubber against paper gasket can work here?) by design NOT.
if all the surfaces are undamaged (I cant see yours, in 3D)
the stock kit (thermostat) works perfect and in fact 7 years, long or more. so It DID WORK GREAT,.
if is damage here, only magic works now. (ok?) magic means the mechanic must find a way to hide the damage, and can be very very very hard, under 14psi pressure to do that.
He knows that and balked. for good reasons. (a wise man !) but why did it not just buy a suzuki real part, IDK (I Dont Know)
Hint1:
to shrink photos use windows 10 PAINT (type paint in the run box , then the exe paint.exe that pops up)
open the huge photo
click resize , pick HORZ 1280, SAVE and now it is not 10 feet wide as better cameras DO.
best is photo in the STAT well to see damage. CLean it first, and RTV is the most hard substance in the the world to remove. do not use metal to scrap OK.
RTV is uses when DAMAGE is HUGE and too cheap to buy used or new intake manifold for a NEW WELL.
that is how the cookie crumbles here.
I do not know how the top makers of thermostats (not suzuki) evolved there product after 12years ago I red inked those B/W factory drawing (lined above)
If you read my themostat page (fixkick.com) it even tells you the cars VIN number serial that the bigger thermostat well began.
http://fixkick.com/specs/16Lstat-bung/vin-numb-change.jpg
1993 for 4 door, see? (so your car is for sure wide version, it is not rumor but facts) engine swaps notwithstanding (etc)
ODD DUCKS in thermostat world:
if any thing learn not to mix factory and aftermarket parts here.
some thermostats (aftermarket) have this very unique UNIFIED seal, that is my guess for damaged cars, IDK, (SUZUK had no hand in this idea)
they look like a mix of rubber ring and an old 1992 flat gasket all in this large affair. (looks totally alien) all rubberized, in total.
IDK why, I can not guess intent, but my guess, is
1: to fit more year cars, 92 to 98
2: to fit damaged, thermostat well. Again Ive no Idea at all there true Intent. but my best guess is here,
this post should now answer most thermostat questions.
but why not buy the SUzuki part, ? $41 set. why? (sure delays but if the aftermarket part fails then what?, more delays or worse.........)
![[Image: 3_28_03_19_7_44_41.jpeg]](https://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/gallery/3_28_03_19_7_44_41.jpeg)