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+--- Thread: x-90 P0335 code (/thread-x-90-p0335-code)
RE: x-90 P0335 code - CSUSBgeochem1 - 04-08-2019
Distributor timed to the number 4 spark plug to complete timing.
RE: x-90 P0335 code - CSUSBgeochem1 - 04-08-2019
Somehow the High Voltage igniter is going off early? i have no idea whats going on here but obviously an effect of the trouble code. This is the old distributor cap
RE: x-90 P0335 code - fixkick - 04-08-2019
someone ran the cars spark way too . ADVANCED (all you see there is HISTORY, and we know for a fact it was off)
the rotor turns CCW so looking in cap that is CW
so that cap is old super old and is history of last owner that problably did not know how to time an engine or didnt know about the timing freeze jumper
or the crank key was messed up.
or the distrib base clamp screw was loose for 50k miles?
why would you not think this cause the timing to be wrong.
this did that.
![[Image: 3_08_04_19_7_00_18.jpeg]](https://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/gallery/3_08_04_19_7_00_18.jpeg)
RE: x-90 P0335 code - fixkick - 04-08-2019
the crank snout bad , causes cam and spark to be timed wrong. (causes cmp to be wrong and ckp to both be wrong)
this is your posted photo. above, below in mine.
the cam spins the distributor so if this is wrong all timing is (was) wrong. crank timing is first, (the key) then cam , then distributor in that order.
the cam turns at 1/2 speed of crank 2:1 ratio. the distributor same. so 2 degrees off at crank is 1 degree off at cam and at distributor.
if timing is not wrong now, then there will be no timing codes. DTC. (unless sensors fail)
as you can see from that very bad key slot above finding true TDC #1 would be not easy. (I'd think horrific task to cure)
it is wallowed out real bad, and the rust there, looks like front of car sat in sea water for a year, wow, never seen so much rust , ever.
here is a good crank snout, mine.
![[Image: 16v-crankkey1.jpg]](https://www.fixkick.com/t-belt/16v-crankkey1.jpg)
all we know is the CKP will set 335 errors, if the CKP drops 1 pulse in 20 or drops more or all pulse (called dead or wires to it cut)
we dont know if the CMP sensor way off can cause 335.
or if belt timed wrong can. cause 335.
we do know on modern cars the CKP will fail DTC for.
1: timed wrong. ( cam to crank timing incongruity errors we call this)
2: 1 or more missing pulses, or dead.
3: jittering signal (jumping like mad, as any key bad like yours will do)
4: cam belt loose. or timed wrong.
RE: x-90 P0335 code - CSUSBgeochem1 - 04-09-2019
Ok so now that you have pretty much all the info in pictures i wanted to let you know something i noticed while timing with the gun. After timing to 5 degrees, i removed the jumper to watch the timing advance as the throttle was increased. What i did notice was every time i would gas the throttle the timing would slightly retard, then advance. Like it would go back a little then move forward. I thought this kind of odd, like how can the crank timing retard slightly before advancing instead of just steadily advancing. Not sure if this is the misfire happening as im gassing the throttle but i thought i would mention it. Ill try and get some photos of it happening or video so you can see what i mean. Other than that im clueless. I need to invest in an oscilloscope but want the 2430 like you have.
RE: x-90 P0335 code - fixkick - 04-09-2019
does the timing freeze work , if yes, then all is good, with loose belts and keyways wrecked.
ever seen the 3D map of spark timing?
it is complex but in park or in neutral the advance is not only aggressive upto 40 degrees advance (see that on your scan tool) and bouncing like crazy at idle is normal.
this you will learn even at idle this (magic) saves lots of fuel for sure for the life of the car,
here is a map.. photo, 3d spark map.
the 3d axis's are , RPM, LOAD and advance.
first off suzuki never published such a map (igntion advance 3D) so we can do as look at all cars that have a 3D map.
The ECU computes load, obd2 even reports load. and is based off the MAF sensor,(95HP is max air flow, like on a hill)
The next rule is the ECU does not ever (this car) know true static timing, so the owner job is to do that and the ECu assumes its at 5DegBTDC or as the hood sticker states.
so OBD2 reports (total advance = static adv + computed 3D advance (algebra simple)
![[Image: 3_08_04_19_11_59_43.gif]](https://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/gallery/3_08_04_19_11_59_43.gif)
but i can drive and plot advance and load and RPM,. sure can but not parked. (its too crazy when car not moving)
(04-09-2019, 12:51 AM)CSUSBgeochem1 Wrote: Ok so now that you have pretty much all the info in pictures i wanted to let you know something i noticed while timing with the gun. After timing to 5 degrees, i removed the jumper to watch the timing advance as the throttle was increased. What i did notice was every time i would gas the throttle the timing would slightly retard, then advance. Like it would go back a little then move forward. I thought this kind of odd, like how can the crank timing retard slightly before advancing instead of just steadily advancing. Not sure if this is the misfire happening as im gassing the throttle but i thought i would mention it. Ill try and get some photos of it happening or video so you can see what i mean. Other than that im clueless. I need to invest in an oscilloscope but want the 2430 like you have. ( a cheaper analog scope is far better the 2430 most are dead now)
RE: x-90 P0335 code - fixkick - 04-09-2019
as you can see 3D maps are complex, and is why EFI gets on average 20% better fuel economy, over any CARB made.
no distributor made (non EFI distributor) can do that, no distributor is a 3D class device.
note how under heavy load, 58% the green area runs less advance that is because the cylinder pressures are huge, and the flame front is SUPER Fast and never wants much advance, and if you did it have less power, power is made after TDC not before, so load lines are very important here.
also EFI has a cut fuel mode no carb has.
so when you gun the throttle then back off, it cuts fuel, and spark may go retarded, (this cut fuel mode overrides the normal mode above)
the EFI system is very complex and has many modes, even cranking modes, hot , or cold engine and idle mode. and cut fuel mode.
all this plays out by modes.
RE: x-90 P0335 code - fixkick - 04-09-2019
you can if you want run a good OBD2, tool and log all sensors , load ,rpm and advance.
and see it all under all driving conditions, a great way to learn EFI is this way.
the static advance fed car is 5 degr
in calif its 8, so lets play Federal car usa. (hood sticker tells your what you have)
here is my advance parked racing engine, for max advance ( 42-5 = 37)
so you set static and 5 and the ECU goes 37 more for a total of 42 degrees reported by ECU OBD2 scans.
if you set the static wrong the ECU never learns that. and will go too far advanced. (lies in equal lies out on all computers)
![[Image: full-advance.JPG]](https://www.fixkick.com/ECU/Authority/full-advance.JPG)
RE: x-90 P0335 code - fixkick - 04-09-2019
at idle many things are changing, (sure misfire) but alternator load, battery charging or not, accessories on or off. and more lots more, even engine heat.
and worse a MAF that changes output when shook, see many bad maf do that. (even gentle hits to its side)
more tricks ? is to look at OBD2 pendings.
see if 335 shows there,
many errors on this car , do not set until serious and only show up in PENDINGS,
a pending can set and clear over and over and not set a DTC. so we look there, to see if the 335 is really hiding in the fog there.
on most cars (and 4wd for sure) the OBD likes to hide random errors on the 2 sensors, ckp/cmp
this is to avoid (i think) false errors like when offroad doing wild things, causing wild crank shaft actions like when tires slip and then gains traction in 1 second flat. (violent load changes)
this can cause false errors. (and P300 errors too can be less sensitive on 4wd ECU)
knowing this we check pending errors like a hawk.
one other obd2 trick is freeze frame, go there see the frame for 335 errors, see what is there for RPM and other data there to get a clue as to what car was doing at 335, (idling, or driving , or?)
RE: x-90 P0335 code - CSUSBgeochem1 - 04-10-2019
I think i have been going about this all wrong. the crank sensor also detects misfire and there are a few things i think might be contributing to this so i need to clear those up. i need to make sure there are no causes that would contribute to misfire and everything is running correctly.
Temp 180
I will take a vacuum gauge to it and see whats going on with that.
I will get the freeze data off my obd2 scanner and post that for you to see.
The exhaust manifold is severly cracked and needs replaced. same with the oxygen sensors but i will test those to be sure.