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2006 jeep liberty timing chain
(08-11-2019, 08:23 AM)fixkick Wrote:
(08-11-2019, 07:41 AM)star2525 Wrote:
(08-10-2019, 10:57 PM)fixkick Wrote: when the chain gets loose the CMP sees that , and compared to CKP knows it bounces.
a loose chain makes noise too (odd)
if not the CMP may be bad only.
most shops would replace the CMP first. or pull the valve cover off and jog the cranks shaft and view the chain action to see if it is loose.
the problem is that the chain tension-er can fail. and only it is bad, then latter, cause chain to stretch.
so if CMP swap out fails to fix cmp errors (0016) then the whole chain is replaced and hydr. tension-er, and is expensive parts and lots of  labor time, 6 hours at least. the FSM shows the steps, it is huge.
Only had Jeep running for the last week and half. When I try to start it, I am turning key on several times and having to accelerate in order to get it started. Also notice sometimes I get nothing at key on, no noise, almost like how a starter goes bad.

I know you,  star2525 from far back as 2007. welcome back, (i remember your hard to drive on drive way.... rocky! )
welcome back,  I see you emailed me, that is ok too.
ok 2006 jeep liberty,  3.7L (I have 2 jeeps with your engine, one is wrangler one is grandcherokee
I have the full books and all 3 jeeps, full FSm

is this Jeep you have with automatic transmission?
if yes use both park or neutral to crank start it.
to crank in neutral  you step on brake key on and move the selector from park to neutral then crank  or the shifter is locked.
this trick uses fresh switch contacts in the PRNDL switch box,  of the selector. 

to cranks over ok, but wont start and wants more air, using accelerator means it wants to flood, and your trick adds more air and it starts.

keep the battery charged, clean lugs.
keep battery lugs clean.
if will not crank, move the gear selector back and forth  a few times, and even wiggle it cranking can fix it.
or wiggle the key to at start turn far right CW clock wise the key and jiggle it a bit,. this too can wake up its contacts.
these are all tricks not cures ,just not get stuck somewhere..  just keep foot on brake during all this .
It is automatic transmission. Battery has been checked out while vehicle is running. Interstate Battery. Good condition, new.

Have not tried starting in neutral. Ignition also has some slop to it as well.

Will try starting it tomorrow afternoon. Have errands in morning to do and using Sidekick to do errands
any time a starter is silent and sounds dead, that means any of the below can be wrong, we must do simple tests to find it (battery voltage first at 12.6vdc (100% charged summer 70f temps)
beside bad battery .  this car is 4wd, 4x4.?

from easy to harder tests/cause. are:
1: battery lugs corroded, (4 ends there are) cleaned and tight works.
2: battery cables bad. ( a tech checks for voltage drops here) takes only a voltmeter and 2 persons. to prove this good or bad.
3: starter relay bad, or intermittent. replace it if starter is silent it cheap an easy fix, it just unplugs.(ask how and where) I have FSM 06
3b: the tiny wire to the starter solenoid is just loose or just rusty , clean it. (under car look up at starter this tiny lug pulls off on most cars,  do so and if green with corrosion , it needs to be cleaned or replaced this lug. (both ends)

Next and very complex is IMMO: this kills dead the ASD relay , and that kills spark and fuel dead.) but this can also fail while cranking (so i add this here)
4: if the car has SKIM , like mine and the SKIM lamp in the cluster glows, at key one, that means the security models are not HAPPY, do you have 2 working keys on this car, do so. try both.
on this car it takes 2 keys to make 3 or more keys, with only 1 key , only jeep or a top key shop can make keys. (special tools complex)
aka. SENTRY KEY IMMOBILIZER SYSTEM, SKIS for short.  this prevents starting any engine. if the lamp glows, SKIM/SKIS in the cluster.
the lamp is not marked, it is for stealth reason (fool the crooks reason) it is lamp 20, that is in you users guide if this lamp glows wrong no jeep starts ever.
see my 2 jeep posts here.

last and can be crazy complex.  this switch prevents starter from ever turning, spinning or cranking , in any gear.

5 PRNDL switch (a.k.a. so called park/neutral lockout switch or P/N switch, jeep like to call it the selector switch)  Trans Range Sensor.
this is  switch in the transmission, some easy to see and replace some harder hell. (deed deep inside) varies by transmission MODEL
some of these transmission are USA trans others are german. and are NOT the same, (side plate on trans is the only clue)
they used 4 transmission on this car your VIN code sent to me will let me tell you which one you have.

what is your VIN,?  email or PM your VIN, and I can see what transmission this is.

SKIM/SKIS: IMMO. ( this FYI  facts, all jeep owners must know)
page 16 in the users manual covers the IMMO,  immobilizer and is first thing to know on all JEEPS.  for sure.
"Security Alarm Indicator Light” (located in the instrument
cluster) will come on for 3 seconds immediately
after the ignition switch is turned on for a bulb check.
Afterwards, if the bulb remains on (lamp20 in the cluster), this indicates a
malfunction in the electronics. If the bulb begins to flash
immediately after the ignition switch is turned on, this
indicates that an invalid key is being used to start the
vehicle. Both of these conditions will result in the engine
being shut down after 2 seconds of running. Keep in
mind that a key which has not been programmed is also
considered an invalid key even if it is cut to fit the
ignition for that vehicle."
[Image: nQSN4Zm.jpg]
note how jeep uses logos (icons) on each lamp above photo of cluster. but one, #20
their silly game of stealth.
in older jeeps it was kEY shape. nice and clear, and useful icon, but now GONE that icon, just red glowing lamp.
watch it like a hawk, otherwise only a scan tool will show why a car is IMMOBILIZED.
what I did is print out this cluster page and stuffed it in the glove box. just in CASE.
it has 3 logic states.
ON Glows red
or flashes.
starter relay is in the PDC box under hood, power distribution box.
1. Remove PDC cover (3). from box 2.  PCS is just in front of  main battery.
2. Remove relay from PDC. (the lid on the PCD shows where it is)

this car  is modern and more unique:
here is how the starter spins, (its not just wires like on a suzuki old)

you turn the key, to ST (start)
the PCM sees that and if SKIM is happy (IMMO) then the PCM not you cranks the engine
the PCM looks a PRNDL switch in the A/T box, and sees for sure the transmission is not in gear. (logic)
then the PCM grounds (using  transistor) the START RELAY. dark orange wire on PCM does that. if not the Starter will be dead.
this is for you or your MECH, that has no proper book.

[Image: lqcqRPY.jpg]
a $5 relay

"I get nothing at key on, no noise, almost like how a starter goes bad. "
my long answer above is for this , symptom only.
the relay is next. if true. or just simple green corroded battery lugs as is so common on any 13 year old car.
(08-11-2019, 11:45 PM)fixkick Wrote: "I get nothing at key on, no noise, almost like how a starter goes bad. "
my long answer above is for this , symptom only.
the relay is next. if true. or just simple green corroded battery lugs as is so common on any 13 year old car.

I did start it in neutral, foot on brake.
My cluster has that #20 and #12

IT IS 4X4 and automatic transmission 

Vin # I will email you that
when you turn the key the red, glowing 20 cluster lamp most go out.
per the users manual.

but with the immoblizer not happy, most jeep crank and never start.

turn key to on
the lamp red 20 glows for 3 seconds.
it then turns off, if not and stays on, read this line.(in your manual)
"Afterwards, if the bulb remains on (lamp20 in the cluster), this indicates a
malfunction in the electronics." ( a very complex set of tests is the only cure) factory tools and spares, and such.

on all jeeps with IMMO, this 20 lamp must turn off , or the engine can never start, and is called imoblized.

if the battery is weak the IMMO will fail too. so we measure battery voltage, and clean the terminals first.
if battery voltage is good, and IMMO fails it will never start, even if it cranks, over fast, that is its purpose , the IMMO (SKIM/SKIS)
no crank, silent starter,  dead starter ,  on this JEEP 2006.
lots of things cause this some simple others no so.
but if the battery is weak the electronics in your car will go nuts and act odd,
clues besides dead starter. (all AAA and ask for jump)
1: dim headlamps
2: relays chatter , key on. or even starter chattering ?
3: IMMO shows IMMO error due to low battery. 12.6vdc is charge battery 100% at 70F ambient temps.
4: scan tool shows battery errors, or scan tool is dead, due to DTC port DEAD and due to battery dead.
5: jumper cable start car. ? if passes ,your battery is bad or ONLY discharged. no starter still dead here. jumped. or do this.
6: pull a dead battery out, put in borrowed known to start a car battery from car# 2 to your liberty. ok starter still dead.
7: own voltmeter>? y/n, if yes say so and we go to work. lacking one, we must guess.
7: own a OBD2 scan tool? (did you know there are DTCs that that flat tell you , the starter relay is bad, for  sure 2006 up.) and more,
8: if you make it this far, and you charged the battery fully  using  battery charger, do not let battery sit for months, on dead car or the battery sulfates and will never be good again.
9: try a new $5 starter relay. does it crank now? (sold in all cars stores USA) no need to drive 100 miles to jeep dealer.
10: if it does crank ok and the IMMO lamp 20 stays red, that means IMMO is sick and not ever good this. $$$$$$ (do you have 2 keys?) never own just 1 key on any modern car.
11:   still no crank ?we hot wire the starter (ask)  only your mech ,knows how , and is a dangerous test lacking knowledge to do it safe, (park lever and 4wd in neutral , chocked wheels)
front end on stands. or 4wheels off ground, touching nothing is most safe.  they sell a hot wire button jumper in all auto stores to make it more easy and 10x more safe.
12: ok it does not crank (hotwired) now so starter is bad. 
13: if it does crank then the Starter relay is bad,
14; no the starter relay is new so the TRS (aka. PRNDL) switch in your transmission may be bad or ignition switch. (only voltmeter testing can solve much of this)

15, we back probe these points to learn what is wrong.(with a volt meter DMM  it is called set to 20vdc scale)

with DMM measure pin starter relay coil pin orange code,.  dead means PCM is not happy to crank (starter blocked by PCM reasons)
the TRS wires, backprobed to be sure the TRS is closed in PARK, 

if still will not cranking, we must scan the PCM to find out why it is UNHAPPY.

the fact is the PCM cranks this car , not you, your key is not wired to the starter on this car,  the PCM watches the key and the PCM does all cranking not really you, as your old
SUzuki does by direct cranking.

The best I can tell is on JEEP, the IMMO does not cut dead the starter. (I'm not going to break my 2 jeeps to learn this, and is not a liberty)
one way to learn this is to buy  new never used ever, new key,
then insert it and try to crank car, I think it cranks but the IMMO for sure kills the ASD relay in 3 seconds flat, yes runs for full 3 seconds. and IMMO lamp flashing , means key bad.
this is the acid test on good liberty,

the jeep FSM , shows no crank logic page.
does not list , IMMO as cause.
but sure the key switch can fail in the ST location sure it can but the PCM tells you it did if you scan it. (sets DTC for key switch errors)

IMMO = immobizer, = skim = skis,  means key security system. i like to call it IMMO
TRS = is jeeps name for Transmission Range switch (PRNDL) if fails no car like this cranks.

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