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2.3 DOHC motor - correct operating temp
#21
OK... 

The 2nd Scan tool is showing the same readings by comparison.

But I realize now I may have made very large mistake.  

When I moved the coolant tube that houses the SENDER and the ECT SENSOR from the J18 to the J23 
(This tube runs from the back of the motor to the front and into the radiator)  I just moved the 
tube, KEEPING the ECT SENSOR for the J18 in place..

Well    This MAY be the reason why the temps are being reported so high..

The ECT SENSOR is DIFFERENT between the J18 and J23  ( I looked it up at Rock Auto . comparing vendor part numbers)

ECT on J18 motor (when in the Sidekick) is 3 wire
ECT on J23 motor (when in the Aerio) is 2 wire  

Could the ECT itself that I have in now be bad, generating values that are reporting incorrect, IE high temps?
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#22
(07-26-2019, 08:42 AM)thebanjoman Wrote: OK... 

The 2nd Scan tool is showing the same readings by comparison.

But I realize now I may have made very large mistake.  

When I moved the coolant tube that houses the SENDER and the ECT SENSOR from the J18 to the J23 
(This tube runs from the back of the motor to the front and into the radiator)  I just moved the 
tube, KEEPING the ECT SENSOR for the J18 in place..

Well    This MAY be the reason why the temps are being reported so high..

The ECT SENSOR is DIFFERENT between the J18 and J23  ( I looked it up at Rock Auto . comparing vendor part numbers)

ECT on J18 motor (when in the Sidekick) is 3 wire
ECT on J23 motor (when in the Aerio) is 2 wire  

Could the ECT itself that I have in now be bad, generating values that are reporting incorrect, IE high temps?


progress, 2 tools show the same value so that means
wrong ECT or the engine is overheating well for sure  thermostat being out of control, not at 180f as it must be.
why only remains.

Suzuki done not use 1 ect.
the 3wire version is 2 ECT's one for the PCM brain, and OBD2 and the second sensor is only for the gauge.
2 different cars, can I assume you car is all  J18, wired?  J18 PCM , J18 ECT, only this works
the ECT is just  thermistor,  on the G16 300ohms is 180F.   on the J18 I do not have the spec on it. but most cars and engines generations use different, ECT.

you must not use the wrong ECT on that J18 PCM.

if your PCM is  dash 77Enn or 78Enn  (nn is for transmission type.)
here they are.

https://fixkick.com/ECU/EPC-ECU96-98/all..._page1.jpg

not sure on your plumbing.  but the ECT must be at the rear of head exit hot water Port, and most be ECT J18, 1996 to 1998 (what ever car was , must be)

size and pin counts are not all there is , what thermistor is inside matters MOST.
http://www.fixkick.com
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#23
https://fixkick.com/ECU/18L/18LiterECU1.pdf


here is the sport
if nothing else the wire color are good.
http://www.fixkick.com
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#24
(07-26-2019, 09:07 AM)fixkick Wrote: https://fixkick.com/ECU/18L/18LiterECU1.pdf


here is the sport
if nothing else the wire color are good.

SMP TOP SENSOR MAKER THE 1998 SPORT.  TS-423 (SMP #)
HAS 3 PINS.  ( A dual sensor, one pin is ground and others are ECT for PCM and temp sensor for cluster in 98 sport.)

AND  FITS OTHER CARS IN THIS LIST.
Chevrolet Metro (01-98)
Chevrolet Tracker (04-99) (i have the book on this, FSM, will look this up, today)
Geo Metro (97)
Pontiac Firefly (98-97)
Suzuki Esteem (02-95)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (05-99)
Suzuki Sidekick j18 (98-96) 
Suzuki Swift (01-96)
Suzuki Vitara (04-99)
Suzuki XL-7 (06-02)
http://www.fixkick.com
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#25
(07-26-2019, 10:23 PM)fixkick Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 09:07 AM)fixkick Wrote: https://fixkick.com/ECU/18L/18LiterECU1.pdf


here is the sport
if nothing else the wire color are good.

SMP TOP SENSOR MAKER THE 1998 SPORT.  TS-423 (SMP #)
HAS 3 PINS.  ( A dual sensor, the casing  is ground and others are ECT for PCM and temp sensor for cluster in 98 sport.)
[Image: 04wDLyz.jpg]

FSM data J18

the old PCM (ECU turns on the engine fan at 208deg F; (DATA j23 sedan, not j18 but is clue to when to do so... so i looked that up.)
the ect pins 1 and 2 , voltage ranges , .55 to .95vdc ( .55 is hotter end) RTC reverse temperature coefficient thermistors  hot = lower voltage , lower ohms.
that narrow range is only for 180f thermostat spec, 176 to 212f.  The stat is 100% open at 203F. (more data j18)

found a real Suz, FSM for J18 in my deep archives. (2007 DVD-r burned )
found the chart. in ECT I did., The PCM on J18 , need to have real J18 sensors not J23.  The PCM makes the rules not me.
here
all are here 4+ new JPG added.

https://imgur.com/a/zOg7oHQ?



AND  FITS OTHER CARS IN THIS LIST. SMP.com DATA:
Chevrolet Metro (01-98)
Chevrolet Tracker (04-99) (i have the book on this, FSM, will look this up, today) this can help source parts, for hard to  find suzuki parts.
Geo Metro (97)
Pontiac Firefly (98-97)
Suzuki Esteem (02-95)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (05-99)
Suzuki Sidekick j18 (98-96) 
Suzuki Swift (01-96)
Suzuki Vitara (04-99)
Suzuki XL-7 (06-02)


my Excel data is here. (microsoft Exel must be loaded) note how close I got the curves matched, (a true logarithmic sensor it is and RTC type)

https://fixkick.com/sensors/ECT/ect.xlsx


i finished the IMGUR page for you , check it out.

if engine is too hot,  key off.
carefully, unplug ect connector and use an ohm meter (dmm turned to R1 range) see 300 ohms then good, if read why lower say 190 or 150 ohms then
1: engine really is too hot or
2: wrong ECT sensor used,  only J18 sensor will work, with J18 ECU, 1996-98

the ECU has its own ECT table in the firmware of the ECU, using the wrong sensor, renders that Useless. <<<< this is a key fact to know, if doing any engine swaps.
same with using wrong MAF, wrong IAT, wrong TPS.

as we say , in the end, one must make the ECU/PCM happy.

good luck to you and break a leg( god speed) cheers.

if you  want the fsm J18 ,then pm me your email and will send link to it free. 11MBytes sized Sy418 = sport. (it has sy413 and sy416 too inside) engine controls only.
http://www.fixkick.com
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#26
(07-26-2019, 11:40 PM)fixkick Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 10:23 PM)fixkick Wrote:
(07-26-2019, 09:07 AM)fixkick Wrote: https://fixkick.com/ECU/18L/18LiterECU1.pdf


here is the sport
if nothing else the wire color are good.

SMP TOP SENSOR MAKER THE 1998 SPORT.  TS-423 (SMP #)
HAS 3 PINS.  ( A dual sensor, the casing  is ground and others are ECT for PCM and temp sensor for cluster in 98 sport.)
[Image: 04wDLyz.jpg]

FSM data J18

the old PCM (ECU turns on the engine fan at 208deg F; (DATA j23 sedan, not j18 but is clue  to when to do so... so i looked that up.)
the ect pins 1 and 2 , voltage ranges , .55 to .95vdc ( .55 is hotter end) RTC reverse temperature coefficient thermistors  hot = lower voltage , lower ohms.
that narrow range is only for 180f thermostat spec, 176 to 212f.  The stat is 100% open at 203F. (more data j18)

found a real Suz, FSM for J18 in my deep archives. (2007 DVD-r burned )
found the chart. in ECT I did., The PCM on J18 , need to have real J18 sensors not J23.  The PCM makes the rules not me.
here
all are here 4+ new JPG added.

https://imgur.com/a/zOg7oHQ?



AND  FITS OTHER CARS IN THIS LIST. SMP.com DATA:
Chevrolet Metro (01-98)
Chevrolet Tracker (04-99) (i have the book on this, FSM, will look this up, today) this can help source parts, for hard to  find suzuki parts.
Geo Metro (97)
Pontiac Firefly (98-97)
Suzuki Esteem (02-95)
Suzuki Grand Vitara (05-99)
Suzuki Sidekick j18 (98-96) 
Suzuki Swift (01-96)
Suzuki Vitara (04-99)
Suzuki XL-7 (06-02)


my Excel data is here. (microsoft Exel must be loaded) note how close I got the curves matched, (a true logarithmic sensor it is and RTC type)

https://fixkick.com/sensors/ECT/ect.xlsx


i finished the IMGUR page for you , check it out.

if engine is too hot,  key off.
carefully, unplug ect connector and use an ohm meter (dmm turned to R1 range) see 300 ohms then good, if read why lower say 190 or 150 ohms then
1: engine really is too hot or
2: wrong ECT sensor used,  only J18 sensor will work, with J18 ECU, 1996-98

the ECU has its own ECT table in the firmware of the ECU, using the wrong sensor, renders that Useless. <<<< this is a key fact to know, if doing any engine swaps.
same with using wrong MAF, wrong IAT, wrong TPS.

as we say , in the end, one must make the ECU/PCM happy.

good luck to you and break a leg( god speed) cheers.

if you  want the fsm J18 ,then pm me your email and will send link to it free. 11MBytes sized Sy418 = sport. (it has sy413 and sy416 too inside) engine controls only.
This is how I put the J23 together.

Oil Pan and Pickup tube  and pickup tube gasket from J18
Complete Intake manifold and Exhaust from J18. 
Coolant tube from J18 that runs from the back of the motor to the top radiator inlet , I kept ECT and temp sensor from J18
All wiring from the J18 has been used. All connections swapped for one. labeled when taken out and returned when motor installed.
J18 motor mounts and all external brackets and existing power steering and A/C compressor ..

Only Long block, injector rail, and injectors from the J23 has been used.  

I followed the exact same method that Matt Verley used in  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv67n53cUs&t=417s
to do the engine swap.  

I now need to test the ECT sensor that I have in the motor.   I have a second ECT sensor from the J18 engine I pulled out.

I should see near the same OHMs reading at the same temps on BOTH.  

I'll report back on the sensor details.
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#27
perfect !
the j18 manual shows this (suzuki spec on j18)

[Image: 4EPg72o.jpg]


SMP just responded to my asking here.

[Image: NzAuCBg.jpg]
http://www.fixkick.com
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#28
the sensor is easy to test in a pan of water, even just 2 tests, room temp 20C and then 80c, using any DMM + ohms mode.
safe and simple and not risk to car.

the data I took on mine is here , see my charge see right columns
ignore the 2 errors I made here, (blush) 5030 and 5200 (midnight typos,,,,
https://fixkick.com/ECU/temp-sensors.html

if you look on my chart those voltages may work. 180F , if you back probe the sensor you see 0.65 volts CD , way less is and overheated engine or bad ECT.(or wrong ECT or china $5 knockoff sensors)
http://www.fixkick.com
Reply
#29
all comments so far assume ECU is 77E or 78E coded ECU on tag. (PCM = ECU +TCM)

all photos I have sent you are from this one page

https://imgur.com/a/zOg7oHQ?

t
http://www.fixkick.com
Reply
#30
(07-27-2019, 09:58 PM)fixkick Wrote: the sensor is easy to test in a pan of water, even just 2 tests,  room temp 20C and then 80c,  using  any DMM + ohms mode.
safe and  simple and not risk to car.

the data I took on mine is here , see my charge see right columns
ignore the 2 errors I made here, (blush) 5030 and 5200 (midnight typos,,,,
https://fixkick.com/ECU/temp-sensors.html

if you look on my chart those voltages may work.  180F , if you back probe the sensor you see 0.65 volts CD , way less is and overheated engine or bad ECT.(or wrong ECT or china $5 knockoff sensors)
 
 I pulled the ECT to test in a pan of water.    To 'plug the hole' I put the ECT from my other motor and tightened it up and let the motor run to temp.
 I got nearly the SAME results.   

 To test the ECT in a pan I did the following.

 Aluminum pot  
 Candy/Fryer type Thermometer that can range from 100 - 450
 Meter set on Ohms at 2K ,  My meter does't have a 1K setting. 
 Alligator clips to leads attached to the ECT.   I cut a piece of a drinking straw to use as a shield of the middle lead so clips couldn't touch.
 Suspended the ECT with a wooden spoon and a clamp to keep it off the bottom of the pan and filled water up to the top of the threads and not the plastic.

 Here are my readings.  I took photos of each temp reading.
  
  120 degrees  -   .981
  140 degrees  -   .631
  160 degrees  -   .430
  180 degrees  -   .302 
  200 degrees  -   .217
  212 - full boil  -  .188  

  First of all I 

  Picture you posted on IMGUR states at 

  140 degrees it should be 0.584 
  176 degrees it should be 0.303 -0.326    

   Would these readings be considered 'in scope' of what I should expect to see?     I think so. 

   And the fact that I was getting SIMILAR readings of the ECT I have in now.

   When I got the car I had a chance to pick up a known good PCM to have a spare for a decent price so I picked it up. 
   I plugged it in this weekend and rand the engine up and got the same results.  
   To me it validates the ECT readings I am getting.   

   I've tried as many ways I can think of to validate the results,  multiple scanners, multiple ECTs and multiple PCMs.  All with the same results.

   I have also located a few others who have done the same swap with a J23 into their Sport.   They will hook up a Scanner to their vehicles soon
   and will share their results with me.  I'm trying to get the most information I can for comparison.
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