Wits End....ready to crush it-(96 Tracker miss) - Printable Version +- Car Repair Forum (https://fixkick.com/forum) +-- Forum: Suzuki (https://fixkick.com/forum/forum-suzuki) +--- Forum: Sidekick/Tracker (https://fixkick.com/forum/forum-sidekick-tracker) +--- Thread: Wits End....ready to crush it-(96 Tracker miss) (/thread-wits-end-ready-to-crush-it-96-tracker-miss) |
Wits End....ready to crush it-(96 Tracker miss) - [email protected] - 04-29-2021 If anyone can help, I'd prolly send you a case of beer (if you are of age).... So I inherited a '96 Tracker (1.6L, 16v) from my father in law. One owner but years ago it over heated or something terrible went wrong with it and he decided to try and fix it himself. He dis-assembled the head and there it sat in his garage for 10+ years. Recently his health declined and I decided to try and revive her....Little did I know what I was getting myself into. Here we are 6 months later and still do not have a 100% running vehicle. I bought a brand new long block from Autozone and pieced it back together. It was in about 100 pieces in his garage. Now its got a miss on all cylinders and is running way too rich. I tried everything I can think of.... It has new: Fuel injectors (2 sets actually) New fuel regulator New temp sensor Tried a distributor off another Tracker (used) Tried a MAF sensor off another Tracker (used) New Radiator New battery New fuel pump-the fuel tank was completely gummed up, I removed the tank, cleaned it, replaced the filter. I've set the timing a dozen times (set it to base timing using the connector at the front of the vehicle) Check the timing belt alignment from the factory Checked fuel pressure-30 or so and goes up when vacuum is pinched Ive given up and taken it to two different shops even and I never use shops unless something needs special equipment like an alignment.....one charged me a boat load to replace the intake gasket they claimed was the problem (which slightly helped) and the second is scratching their heads at this point after checking everything I have. The return fuel line was blocked for awhile with debris which I fixed (removed fuel line and cleared)..... I'm ready to give up on it at this point.....but have dumped too much $$$ to do so. I even have a used ECU coming but I do not think its going to help. This thing should run purr like a kitten! Any one have any suggestions? It randomly misses on all cylinders at idle (800 RPM). RE: Wits End....ready to crush it-(96 Tracker miss) - fixkick - 04-29-2021 (04-29-2021, 09:06 AM)[email protected] Wrote: If anyone can help, I'd prolly send you a case of beer (if you are of age)....72yo.most of these cars fail ECU for bad caps. some leak acid, other look perfect but are dry in inside and are dead at 0uF. those bad makes ECU reboot constantly and that will misfire why think the distributor is not bad. pr bad sparkl coil inside it., or or rare, cmp bad inside it too. or bad ground under hood. all. not scanning the ECU, looking for p03xx codes, as engine misfires is huge missed (no pun) clue not looking. sure spark plugs, HV wire sets new, sure gapped at 0.028" and NEVER out of the box 0.045" dead wrong. that is all I can think of 02 sensor ok front, not stuck at 0v with cracked #4 exhaust tube header, stock does that. EGR not sticking open. (at idle) misfires hot and cold, ? or at idle, or accel or wot "? the question is , does spark misfire or is it fuel mix wrong gross when it misfires. first see if it is spark scan it. good luck to you RE: Wits End....ready to crush it-(96 Tracker miss) - [email protected] - 04-29-2021 (04-29-2021, 12:56 PM)fixkick Wrote:(04-29-2021, 09:06 AM)[email protected] Wrote: If anyone can help, I'd prolly send you a case of beer (if you are of age)....72yo.most of these cars fail ECU for bad caps. Yeah, it did have a P0300 code-General misfire....not much help there.... EGR was checked (the first shop said it was ok) It's got new plugs gapped correctly-Ive had to take them out 10x and clean them off due to the misfire and the wires are also brand new. The original distributor was clearly left out in some weather as it had signs of rust on it. I put a new cap/rotor on it and cleaned it as best I could. For this reason that is why I tried one I got at the bone yard....it ran the same on either. O2 sensor seems to be tracking correctly as far as voltages....second shop told me that..... Yeah, I agree that I'm not positive if: -Its running rich because of spark Or It's misfiring because of too much fuel My gut (and both shops) says it's too much fuel. Ive also wondered if when the fuel return line was blocked and the pressure was too high if it damaged injectors....I don't know if that's even possible Lastly, seems like the misfire is worse at low RPM and it runs much better over 2k.... RE: Wits End....ready to crush it-(96 Tracker miss) - fixkick - 04-29-2021 (04-29-2021, 01:42 PM)[email protected] Wrote:bad fuel wrecked the old injectors. AND THE return line plugged and with that plugged, PSI is 60PSI and goes rich as hell. like that.(04-29-2021, 12:56 PM)fixkick Wrote:(04-29-2021, 09:06 AM)[email protected] Wrote: If anyone can help, I'd prolly send you a case of beer (if you are of age)....72yo.most of these cars fail ECU for bad caps. the injectors foul out and go lean , WITH BAD FUEL. the injectors have 10 micron, sized screens inside that pack up when fuel is bad. (4 times smaller this than then the fuel filter size, media inside) P0300 is useful, it means all 4 cylinder ar misfiring , via bad spark or bad fueling, ( not just one cylinder failing all 4 do) A good shop can use there spark scope to see why, the spark plugs make a plasma resistance when fired. this reading shows to key factors. 1: SPARKS IS GOOD OR DEAD (MISFIRED)' or not. 2: OR SPARK IS GOOD BUT THE PLASMA IS WRONG, (MEANS FUELING ISSUES) i can only assume spark plugs are J plugs stock not some wild useless surface fire plugs. of any kind, just on gap there. not 2,3,4 worse true surface fire plugs. try mag-wires , NGK, or BOSCH , mag wire set, these are best on low energy susuki spark systems, (weak) a lean engine makes high resistance plasma , too rich is low resistance. (learn burn verses rich burn) The 1996 has CKP SENSOR ON FRONT OF ENGINE CRANK PULLEY. this must be for the Sidekick trackers not other suzuki G15b like seen on ESTEEMs,etc. when you buy an engine the bottom crank cog is viewed by eyeball, is a CKP tone wheel and must be for your exact car, or it will misfire. 300 mean also it is not single cyclinder failing, nor are all 4 spark wires bad, but is bad spark coil, sure. or 4 bad injectors. or bad ECU. You changed the distributor. and new FPR used, this is a very important device, and fails dead with returned line clogged, and must be tested at key on idle both, for correct spec pressure. This device keeps pressure correct so the injectors can not under flow or overflow and also the ECU assumes this is correct the ECU does not know true fuel pressure, so the ECU uses fuel tables based on FPR working perfectly, at all times. key on 36psi, idle is 30psi on my 96. the 6psi drop is NOT optional. did the mech check to see if the hot engine runs in closed loop at idle?????? it must, and if does not is fixed first. if spark checks out and fuel pressure checks out. we then assume sensors are bad. we know compression is good, 180PSI we know the vacuum at idle is about 19inches, and that vacuum is not acting backwards at the throttle with clogged CAt. we know the engine is good, not just that it rebuilt, we test it. (assuming things are good, is not bad, best is to prove it) the EGR not stuck open, nor vacuum hoses routed wrong. to it. The O2 front sensor swings, at hot idle this is called closed loop operations. and it must do that. (exhaust cracks near by cause super rich misfire) CKP not off some lame, ESTEEM G16B , hopeless this and makes the ECU go quite MAD. bad inejector from bad fuel, are reverse ultrasonic cleaned, to make the screens clean and all parts inside the injectors clean. a good shop knows how to do and injector leak down test. 1 by 1 on car, it is trick but proves all 4 flow the same rate on car, a skill some shops do not know. a bad ECU, bad caps, lid off see that large corner Can shaped CAP, they leak green acid when bad (some) other crack or blow the bottom rubber out and leak ECU love to fail on this car 1989 to 95 more often, but some have the Rubicon caps there, known to fail. black color. rebuilt engine horrors wrong CKP sensor tone wheel COG ( please click me and see wrong , !) or put in a oil pan gasket this is dead wrong 96 up as this makes the CKP dead or misfires, super super bad. a real engine the Pan is RTV glued on in the factory and that puts the CKP mag tip very close to the tone wheel, spoke tips if this is wrong ,nothing but bad happens. or the engine is OMG, 1995 (92-95) and has no CKP port in the oil pump casing at ALL , omg its MISSING, derp builders. P0300 only means the combustion pressure was way too weak on all 4 , at random. nothing else , spark or fuel caused or EGR stuck open.(or cam belt slipped) driving a car with scan tool scanning is best, not just looking at history for stored DTCs, we drive and scan and OMG there are other codes that fail or show up in PENDINGS and gee are the real problem. Live errors are best seen, stored errors are subject to the rules of driving cycles. 2 or 3 to see stored. and scan the O2 sensor. it must swing fast , at hot idle and light cruise. (right foot steady say 40mph, but not at WOT ever is there closed loop) Live data scans are best to see all things all sensors actions to see what might be going on, that no code reader made can do. is the #4 exhaust manifold cracked like this. RECAP: we still are stuck at
injector leak down test not done to show all 4 flow the same, sadly we have 2 guys here all 4 were equally weak, so passed the test and all 4 clogged 1/2 way, damn. one guy modified the FPR to get full engine power with 1/2 clogged injectors. (we found it with FULL FPR testing) bad fuel is never fun on any EFI car, never, . for sure endless cycle of injector cleanings, most just put in a new tank and clean all fuel lines. Pinching. pinching the FPR vacuum hose can be a wrong test, if locks in the last vacuum the FPR read. (the newer the FPR the more likely to lock in, as in perfect diaphragm there) the test is , remove FPR vacuum line and GOLF TEE the sucking hose. now FPR goes from 30 psi and to 36 (or 6 more for sure) and this makes clogged injectors go way richer. and stops misfiring. (lean burn proved and even see closed loop happen at idle OMG, magic.) there are lots more, lots to fail mine day 1(96 ), the main alum, induction AIR pipe, top of engine ,right rear mount, alum. mount cracked off and huge 1/2' gaping hole there, sucking air LIKE MAD, making MAF near useless see what can happen even simple does. be sad no if all was good and ECU not, we check all things if all things good. ECU bad. there is no other way to test ECU ,besides plotting OBD2 full scans, and plot out all sensors readings. here is one scan of vast. shows my themastat is CRAP, old and slow as HELL ,fixed day1. I tested all maf readings , NOT SEEN ALL BELOW JUST SOME;. WE DO THAT BECAUSE ANY ECU LIED TO FAILS. (GIGO) GARBAGE IN , GARBAGE OUT(INJECTIONS:?) ECT IAT O2 MAF TPS VSS RE: Wits End....ready to crush it-(96 Tracker miss) - fixkick - 04-29-2021 I DO FEEL SORRY FOR YOU plight. for sure bad fuel , repeat 3 time , ouch or bad ECU or bad sensors or sensors gone wild for any reason, even bad connections, or ? thermally failing, at some temp. or exhaust leaks to 02. and more lots more. the list of a good engine good fueling good spark all good sensors. and good ecu and good ecu actuators all. bad grounds are a suzuki horror. for sure engine pulled, and grounds not put back right. or at all. (engine bay has many) sadly it can be 2 things at the same time wrong. (my wild guess is spark is ok) so far.... only scope can prove it is. not much else, unless the spark strob light shows wild spark hits or at the wrong time. RE: Wits End....ready to crush it-(96 Tracker miss) - [email protected] - 04-30-2021 Thanks for your reply and time.....lots to think about here. Wish you were here although maybe you are near??? Anyhow couple followup items- Yes, I fell for the damn "gasket on the oil pan" issue already and had to remove the front differential in order to re-do the oil pan. This is the first vehicle that I've ever encountered that did not want a oil pan gasket....(which you are correct-it was included in the gasket set). The crank position sensor is the original sensor so it should be correct however I didnt really look at the one that came with the long block too closely as I assumed it would be correct..... Yes, in hindsight I would have replaced the fuel tank instead of trying to clean it....I used my pressure washer and got it pretty darn clean but obviously pretty hard to get it 100% clean. One of the injectors was nearly 100% blocked and that cylinder was getting 0 fuel so that was why I replaced them all....but at that time I did not even think to check the return line so maybe I do have 4 bad injectors now but this is getting expensive.... As far as the wires/plugs-yeah they are (or were) new but I got them off Rockauto....cheap set. At the time I didnt realize these Trackers had a crappy/goofy integral coil and never would have guessed this.... As far as the FPR-I actually did pull off the hose and blocked it with my thumb, not just pinched the vacuum line and it responded per your write up on the website. I'll probably end up looking closer at the OBD scan data. I have a cheap scan tool but didnt spend a whole lot of time looking at it. I believe it did go into closed loop but am not 100% positive. It does idle high until it warms up so I assumed it was (I even believe I saw that on the scanner but that seems like years ago now that I've been through all this other stuff and will have to do this again). Grounds have been checked....I even ran a temporary ground from the battery to the block/chassis as a second check. I'll double check the exhaust manifolds and see if there are any cracks.... ...or I may just crush the car and be done with it. RE: Wits End....ready to crush it-(96 Tracker miss) - fixkick - 04-30-2021 (04-30-2021, 02:43 AM)[email protected] Wrote: Thanks for your reply and time.....lots to think about here. Wish you were here although maybe you are near???CKP must work full time no be dead, nor weak. (it is not some optional sensor like read 02 is, for most now) checks: 02 not dead but swings and not 100,000 miles old , end of life is 100,000 miles. less if engine stuck rich or oil burning engines. NO CRACKS near 02 front means gasket too there. the LTFT shows reasonable readings, like -5% this means engine is only 5%rich (NICE) and ECU removed -5% to get to perfect fuel mix. double nice. STFT is too fast for humans to watch, ignore short term. the CKP is linear device, it is not electronic nor is ECT or IAT temp sensors. CMP sensor on cam is a HALL sensor, it has an amplifier in side and needs no tuning ever. like CKP. (as in pan gasket tuning horrors) CKP is a coil of wire like simple school class make your own generator.... and is very very weak even day1 new.\ the CKP sends the signal to the ECU and it uses a zero crossing detector to convert it to digital and best i know, 1volts is just enough more better. and as you race the engine CMP goes higher voltage like all real generators do even hand made in school. the magnetic field , gets weak at the square of the distance. this huge thick pan gasket is huge gap. if normal gap is 50 thou (0.050' and not is 0.200 wide that is that is 4 squared less signal. or 16 times less. that is how the math works out Faraday laws and all that. my point is ,nobody on earth knows at all the stand of max distances of any CKP here, but we do know many failed for JUST THIS fact. that means the coil must see the magnetic pulse from the TONE wheel teeth, if not doomed. this ECU unlike most others on does run ok with CKP dead, but is at greatly reduced performance. if doing misfire calcs and CKP drops out the back in the crank shaft velocity variances are lost. means now a big lie. this ECU measures the power from each firing 1,3,4,2 repeat, to see that each firing is at full energy levels. (expected) and does that by rate of crank speed up. The CKP is not really optional at all, sure it runs but not right. at toyota stalls. see? ours is a tad different. if the CKP misfires it also cause the spark tables to go nuts. with no rational reason why to the humans. some CKP sold from other makers may far better, as in ok with the huge gap, and huge numbers of makers now CMP, (SMP maker is tops in my book) SMP maker ,even markets their sensor as far better than stock, It may be. more turns of finer wire inside is one way. every maker of a sensor has the right to make it better and some do. some even do this so well it fits and works on 10 cars. not even only suzuki. that way less to sell unique, and higher profits. again any cheap scan tool works on 1996 no need for $300 tool this car does only some federal codes. this is all it does. P0xxx is federal EPA codes mandated,. P1 are suzuki only called factor codes. p1 up are factory https://fixkick.com/CEL/96_ALL_CEL/96_all_dtcs1.pdf google why 95 engines fail in 96-98 sidekick/trackers. well known. CKP this DTC may pop and go away fast seeing it can be hard, or see it in PENDINGS. some error take 3 cold to hot driving cycles. one more, the ROTOR IN THE DISTRIBUTOR (china cloned crap) fits on 3 ways, only 1 way works, always pain this, clone crap makes. the real one has huge springclip on the bottom that blocks hare the 3 wrong ways and fully rotor seated or is wrong. PO335 crankshaft position/sensor a circuit malfunction. 335s hit with 1 in 20 missing pulses( ) and may take lots of driving to see it, or 3 driving cycles. pagee v2-6e3-e118 let me look that up first.yes,. |