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high rpm cutout g16b
02-10-2015, 02:31 PM
Post: #1
Question high rpm cutout g16b
i have a suzuki esteem with a g16b 4 speed auto. it cuts out right before it changes gears. or for example say your cruising at 60mph then you just floor the pedal. all it would do is cutout and barely accelerate. i replaced the coils, wires, plugs, tried different gaps, fuel filter, fuel pump is to spec, o2 sensor, coolant temp sensor, cps sensor, tried higher octane gas, i had a mechanic look at it for free and he said he thinks its the coils or some kind of crank or cam sensor? well after he said that i got the new coils on. what do you think it is? i dont think its a misfire. you know how when you almost stall a manual car and it jerks. thats how it feels at higher rpms or underload or going up a hill. the car is all stock when the problem arised. since then i removed the airbox and put a kn filter right off the intake tube and removed the resonator and put a exhaust can on. it still cutout before i did the mods. the engine goes west east not north south if that means anything to you guys. car has 138k. i bought the car with 131k and it didnt have the problem when i test drove it. but as soon as i drove it home it started the cutout problem and threw a code for bad cam position sensor. i replaced the cps and ever since then it still cuts out. could i be over looking this and it could just be a bad cps and the ecu dont see it? or did i some how ruin the timing?

1999 suzuki esteem wagon g16b with short ram intake and aftermarket exhaust can and removed resonator. 4 speed auto
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02-10-2015, 11:18 PM (This post was last modified: 02-10-2015 11:26 PM by fixkick.)
Post: #2
RE: high rpm cutout g16b
welcome mr. Dylan Esteem with G16B
stalls? (cuts out? , or transmission flares, slips)
bogs, at WOT, (if not misfiring (scan it yet, driving, get P0300s misfires all cyl random? ) misfire is violent. bog is like dragging a 2000 pound lead brick.
Fuel pump is to spec? using a real pressure gauge and testing for pressure at WOT, ? for 1second? parked?
i guess that free mech, never say a scan tool before (in usa all tools scan all 99 cars, all) my posts are USA< so?

"removed the airbox and put a kn filter right off the intake tube", (so you dont like stock parts that work great? most of those mods are bad. (CAI sucks too,most)
if you took off intake resonators and (looks like screens) and shorted the paths, the log path makes better low end torque,. what is what works best on street cars.
and the aircleaner box front parts, work in bug and ice storms,(works all the time)
and if done wrong the MAF air meter bounces or gets turbulent air, making it go nuts. (at times odd) (sorry but most mods, are downgrades. fact)


sure front wheel drive, sure. (matters not, same engine)

Scans, (the PCM never lies about this, but any loose cam drive , can i fact fool the ECU/pCM )
bad cam position sensor (do post real DTC's please.)

cps is very very old name, 1980s, it's called CMP or CAS now, cam sensor or cam angle sensor, (not arguing names at all,) but with no DTC i must scratch head. "P0340 Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor Circuit " that one?

the first thing to do day 1 with any G16B
is to make sure the crank pulley bolt is at full spec, tight torque, 17mm deep wall stock CW rotation, at 94/ft/lbs.
if loose cry and most A/T cars that last guy , lazy mech. failed to set it correct. (locking crank and using a real torque wrench, yes, lazy)

day2:
the car has a cam belt drive. and is replaced every 60,000 miles, with a GATES belt not EBay China, no name trash.
if the belt or idler fails, the belt then flops, then slips, and Cam time retards, and compression, tanks. 170psi to 80 easy. (800cc engine like)

if the CMP sees this wild jog , it thinks(sic) oh my gosh what the H3LL is that, ? yes, it is stupid PCM but it will try its best to do timing. with belt bad.
and FAIL, it will , in many ways, (timing, and horrid engine compression ,now or soon)
it sees this error by comparing CKP to CMP, signals. full time. live.
it sees, the CKP as (master, and is) then sees the CMP jump like mad. (inconsistent)
the ratio is 2:1 ( Crank to CAM) , if the ratio keeps changing, the PCM is flummoxed. (

did you scan with full data streaming and look at all live data?
hot idle 800
ECT near 180F or more holding, (coolant)
iat like 125F? (depends on out door air temp)
like im doing hear on a 96 (same engine)
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/Authority/A_F..._scan.html
using a scan tool , you can see lots of crazy things. like hot closed loop failing,
including my MAF plots. i have live driving maf plots there, (no body else does this) not even the FSM does this,, and is key to wide open throttle WOT performance.
a scan tool is $10 (ELM) and works on even free, relic laptops, USB port needed only)
hand tools are good too.(scan) like the Innova 3160 , does all cars, even 2015 (buy one and its good for near ever)

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02-11-2015, 01:37 AM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2015 01:43 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #3
RE: high rpm cutout g16b
intake (magic) (only a secondary issue to above issues) but counts big time.

the stock intake does many things (the MAF air meter is on the side of the Throttle body, the EGR MAP is on left side if main plenum. box.

the screens must not be removed, they force turblant to to go straight (laminar flows.), allowing the MAF to read right.
(all this is stated on SAE.org engineering documents)

the 2 intake resonators reduce noise and make the air flow , more smother, allowing the MAF to work right.
Sound is pulsing air, and you don';t want pulsing air, at the MAF, so..... all 4 cylinders love to pulse. (unlike say a V12)
the long pipes, on intake create a boost in low end torque, (a fact)

the air cleaner box drains water ingested (cooperatively ), to keep the engine from hyrdalocking and bending the rods!
the front pipe forward of air box,
keeps bugs, dirt, sand and ice out of the system and from packing up the Air filter, in seconds.

The stock system tries to get fresh air to engine, not that filth next to the engine. like most CAI do.
(it's a non trivial design, it not , just for fun, or to waste money on complexity, it just works under all conditions, so you can drive and not worry or have issues, in bad weather, (and bug storms like they have in CALIF and Florida. let it.

Keep in mind all filters, let dirt into the engine!, all do, and the less dirt sucked in , the less that the engine gets, making most CAI setups just a giant , dirt vacuum next to the engine, (a fact)
Mo Bedda?
my idea is to use ,the fire wall cowling (has it's own drains too) to get pressurized air, to the stock air cleaner box.
witness this:?
turn on HVAC to vent, non recirc, blower off
feel that fresh air under pressure, driving at 60mph?
imagine that to Air box. pressurize air, ??? now what works, and is not sold in any stores, and is easy to make.


[Image: 3_10_02_15_3_32_25.jpeg]

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02-11-2015, 06:59 AM
Post: #4
RE: high rpm cutout g16b
it was the cam angle sensor my bad, i can put the airbox back on if it will help the car. but i swear when the pod filter is on it, it feels like it has just a bit more pull. it is pretty violent so it is a misfire but it dont throw any codes. i will have to buy a scan tool and get back to you guys.

1999 suzuki esteem wagon g16b with short ram intake and aftermarket exhaust can and removed resonator. 4 speed auto
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02-11-2015, 07:31 AM
Post: #5
RE: high rpm cutout g16b
cam angle?
the sound can make it seem more powerfull, many get rich off this odd effect. same with exhausts.
(more VE, is hard to do, on this 95HP engine, with 4 valves) (volumetric efficiency is good at peak torque)

so far not one dyno proof , just butt dyno's but some like it, Im just telling how great stock is, it does have lots of benefits...
yes, what P30x code will help !!!
yes the rear left cam has a Cam sensor
the cmp/cas, or as the parts list calls the rear of head, sensor, DLI,
the housing has a base o-ring
pn/ 11162-71c10 $3 at
http://www.suzukicarparts.com/parts/1999...eid=214820

the CMP sensor comes with o-ring
and can be measured, if bad.
https://www.rockauto.com/info/321/213-31...__ra_p.jpg

the housing base o-ring is used on 7 pages of engines, in the catalog
all sidekick G16B and vitara's
the CMP sensor is just a replacement for the distributor, so the sensor is made by others, not suzuki so any o-ring on the sensor is part of that sender and makers. My guess, Denso, or Mitsubishi? sensor.

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11-22-2017, 04:33 PM
Post: #6
RE: high rpm cutout g16b
(02-10-2015 02:31 PM)dylan1303 Wrote:  i have a suzuki esteem with a g16b 4 speed auto. it cuts out right before it changes gears. or for example say your cruising at 60mph then you just floor the pedal. all it would do is cutout and barely accelerate. i replaced the coils, wires, plugs, tried different gaps, fuel filter, fuel pump is to spec, o2 sensor, coolant temp sensor, cps sensor, tried higher octane gas, i had a mechanic look at it for free and he said he thinks its the coils or some kind of crank or cam sensor? well after he said that i got the new coils on. what do you think it is? i dont think its a misfire. you know how when you almost stall a manual car and it jerks. thats how it feels at higher rpms or underload or going up a hill. the car is all stock when the problem arised. since then i removed the airbox and put a kn filter right off the intake tube and removed the resonator and put a exhaust can on. it still cutout before i did the mods. the engine goes west east not north south if that means anything to you guys. car has 138k. i bought the car with 131k and it didnt have the problem when i test drove it. but as soon as i drove it home it started the cutout problem and threw a code for bad cam position sensor. i replaced the cps and ever since then it still cuts out. could i be over looking this and it could just be a bad cps and the ecu dont see it? or did i some how ruin the timing?
I have a 1999 1.6 Esteem wagon with identical problems that Dylan 1303 listed on the Suzuki forum -- engine sputters at high revs. With mine it keeps running, but then keeps sputtering at lower and lower revs and eventually quits. Next day it's fine until it's warms up -- and repeats same. It does seem to run hot, as problems start when it reaches about 207 degrees. I live in northern Canada, and discovered that when the outside temperature drops below freezing, the problem disappeared. Like Dylan, I went to several mechanics who couldn't identify problem. Question to everybody: Why is problem fixed due to freezing outside temperature? In non-freezing temperatures the car would only run for about 15 minutes -- if put under some high revs to bring coolant temperature up to 207. Now, in freezing weather, the temperature doesn't get that high, and the car works fine, even under high revs. Is it a sensor problem? A gummed up throttle? I did have catalytic converter removed about a year before problems began. Last mechanic worked for free, and thinks it could be EGR, or faulty computer. I did previously replace computer (from a salvage yard) when problem initially presented, but it didn't improve, so I put original computer back in. Has small oil leak in area I believe close to camshaft control ( right top side of transverse engine as facing engine from front) where camshaft sensor plugs into (when sensor is unplugged engine would die -- naturally). So, to summarize, freezing outside temperature seems to fix problem -- which is what? It's not the coils, as I bought one, and then changed out remaining coil in different positions. Timing belt changed 4 years ago. Car has just less than 100,000 miles (around 160,000 kilometers). Note: none of mechanics knew about freezing outside temperatures fixing problem, as I just recently stumbled across it.
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11-22-2017, 11:05 PM
Post: #7
RE: high rpm cutout g16b
[quote='Suzu99' pid='8964' dateline='1511332408']

I have a 1999 1.6 Esteem wagon with identical problems that Dylan 1303 listed on the Suzuki forum

-- engine sputters at high revs. (sputters, is misfire) is it?
if consider a full tuneup , a 60k mile tune listed in the service manual>?
spark plugs gapped to .028" never use out of the box gaps.
wire set , good qual. not $5 set.
cap
rotor/??? this is always first on sputters, called misfire, !


With mine it keeps running, but then keeps sputtering at lower and lower revs and eventually quits. (stalls the engine stalls?)>????
or is it bogging, bogging feels like pulling 2000 lb dead weight?


Next day it's fine until it's warms up -- and repeats same.
thats odd, usually bad spark is worse cold, please define sputters, thanks.

It does seem to run hot, as problems start when it reaches about 207 degrees. (IR thermal gun read? howd you get 207 exact degrees not off any suzuki dash ever)
180F thermostats is peck here,
its a bad thermostat for a start, here, 1st things see bad, replace, is wise. now.

I live in northern Canada, and discovered that when the outside temperature drops below freezing, the problem disappeared
Like Dylan, I went to several mechanics who couldn't identify problem. (not one offered a tuneup? how odd that is.)

best is to forget Dylan, his car is not your car, see? each car this old usually has 10 problems igorned for 10 years, so each car is UNIQUE !!!
not only that , you can drive is car, and see , feel nor hear his car sputter.
sorry but it s best to use only your posts clean fresh and never mix yours
with or posts, and is called hyjacking a post, and is only fuel for CHAOS. sorry..
He has a bad (CMP) e, but never posted his DTC codes, so, maybe it was not that but the CKP sensor, CRANK who knows, I cant see his hands in the distributor, at all.
your 1999 esteem is the G16B engine aka G16KV (it runs a MAF sensor to calculate fuel rates) It is twin cam G16?
first off , the ECU is not bad, it would be the last possible thing if ever.
the first thing you did wrong is not giving it full tune up, and check the cam belt for bad, as ALL DO at 60,000 miles +
Then scan the PCM with any OBD2 scan tool. even after you drive it. 3 times (OBD2 needs 2 to 3 driving trips, cold to hot , to shore many codes) a fact.
and key to seeing P030x codes called the misfire codes. what if you got P0303, then youd know cylinder 3 was misfiring, and to focus like a laser on that #3. see?>




Question to everybody: Why is problem fixed due to freezing outside temperature?
In non-freezing temperatures the car would only run for about 15 minutes -- (you meant it stalls?)
if put under some high revs to bring coolant temperature up to 207.
Now, in freezing weather, the temperature doesn't get that high, and the car works fine, even under high revs. Is it a sensor problem?
can be why work on any OBD2 car and not own a scan tool for $20- to 100 bucks?


A gummed up throttle? NO ,its not that, all that does is make power weak at wide open throttle. say 10% lost power only at full speed
Yes I know its the holy grail with ave folks but is not it. thing about it a minute, if the TV has restrictions, only air is reduced , not fuel until
at WOT, and only power is reduced, a tad. and not the fuel fix every, it ill not misfire with gunk in the throttle bore. ever.
only loss of air , at WOT due to the reduced throttle body, bore size.
nor did the gunk prevent you from opening the throttle, after all your foot works and opens said valve, and does not stop your foot.
then what if the valve fails to close, well that is simple the idle speeds are not too high (ONLY) with full power on demand and with no sputtering ever
ever see how race engines are too big in a race and the race managers make one guy use throttle plate to reduce his TV bore to make his larger illegal race engine more like the others that are smaller, how does that work, see above, is why. so lets forget the internet myths of gun in bore thing and all that huge work fixing a non-problem here.


I did have catalytic converter removed about a year before problems began. (that act kills dead the EGR, on Vaccum power EGR but not the electric motor EGR)
Last mechanic worked for free, and thinks it could be EGR, or faulty computer. (he is only guessing, why guess???????? sad how he never once scanned it, how sad)
I did previously replace computer (from a salvage yard) when problem initially presented, but it didn't improve, so I put original computer back in. HOW SAD THAT, last on the list of causes but is first, $400 cost here in USA, wow)
what if your car was 1988 and no ECU, what would you do for sputter, the answer is not ECU, but DOING BASICS, see end page for that.

Has small oil leak in area I believe close to camshaft control ( right top side of transverse engine as facing engine from front) where camshaft sensor plugs into (when sensor is unplugged engine would die -- naturally). the CMP sensor, that is. and some overheat and die, the recover, but the Scan tool tells you it did. every time.


So, to summarize, freezing outside temperature seems to fix problem -- which is what? (CMP)
It's not the coils, as I bought one, and then changed out remaining coil in different positions.
Timing belt changed 4 years ago (miles?). 10k per year, 30k on new'ish belt.
Car has just less than 100,000 miles (around 160,000 kilometers).
Note: none of mechanics knew about freezing outside temperatures fixing problem, as I just recently stumbled across it.


what I do and don't know, after all i cant drive, it. feel it ,hear it and see the engine shake. from misfire minor up to total dead spark, stalls. stalls is a key word

I presume it misfires
and that the engine stalls when too hot. 207f will not kill then engine, but 195 thermostats are sold for this car.
its not the missing cat, for sure.
it's not the cam belt its only 30k. (if was a gates belt and not the from EBAY china $5 belt called "som ting wong"brand. i can buy 10 crap belts easy, and know better.
You never gave it a full 60k mile tuneup, why replace any ECU skipping such a simple thing, as skipping tuneups, as 99% of car owners do, and fail. even just park plugs
with spark plugs in hand we read them the grand art of how to they look called evidence, black/white,tang,gray,oil soaked,green (or your color) antifreeze soaked or see physical damage to the tips.>> this is all part of basics.

my guess is the engine is ok, no need to do a compression test, or worry about valve lash done or not dune at the 60k mile new belt cam checks>
and that spark it bad,
spark bad is misfire, or total loss of spark ,fuel can not burn when spark is bad, its not a diesel.
so spark
the next act after any tuneup would be to scan it.
buy ,beg ,barrow, or rent a scan tool OBD2, see that connector under the dash. there/ the OBD2 shaped connector.

scan it, see P3xx errors, do not pull the dome fuse or car battery before you scan it or you lose all that important data.
is the CEL lamp glowing running? most this old are burned out now, so
KEY on CEL glow, if not it burned out, and the scan tool does the same thing, line one , shows, CEL = ACTIVE.
in canada , they dont glow the CEL for misfire, says so in the FSM book.
so my next question is this car CANADA or USA???? the fire wall has oak leave tags that are only on CANADA real cars. you guys use both ours and your cars up there.

1: tuneup not done.
2: CMP may be bad.
3: not COPS (coil over plugs but the scan tool would have told you they were ok)
4: CKP bad, crank sensor.
5: injector issues. bad fuel.

now the cmp, cam sensor on end of one cam.

do not make these error below
the newer SUZUKI , must be timed with a SUZUKI SCAN system to time the CMP correctly , the timing freeze jumper DLC under hood deleted (this is first thing I look for)
The DLC jump connector with rubber cap.

what to do is this.
do not unbolt the main body of CMP (the PUCK) until you MACH mark it with a center punch tool and hammer, mark it and the head, aligned to each other
this is because 1/2 the CMP have no removable plastic CMP sensors there. and is all in one sensor PUCK
if the CMP is just plastic , on the side of the CMP puck then just replace it. 1 screw its out.
the hard CMP or easy CMP, i can see under your hood. so..........

photos 1: canada real tags

http://www.fixkick.com/specs/Body-TAGS/h...ge_15.html


next is CMP

THE FIRST CMP BY SUZUKI LOOKS LIKE THIS.
http://fixkick.com/IGN_timing/Hall-of-Shame/sipc448.jpg

the plastic parts do not remove, the whole PUCK must be changed and done so carefully to not lose the timing.
ask.
old style
http://fixkick.com/IGN_timing/Hall-of-Sh...2-96-8.jpg

new has this, im told some cars it gets mixed old/new. oops

I will find both CMP and CMP partnumbers to see what they are and the CKP location
one some engines the CKP is buried behind the fly wheel, J engines. old.

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11-22-2017, 11:31 PM
Post: #8
RE: high rpm cutout g16b
1.6L SOHC single cam with cMP and CKP senors, 1 each.
im looking in a real canada 99 Esteem book now, parts cat. illustrated fully.
the ckp crank sensor is front bottom of engine. shows it pointing UP.
it has 2 COPS, shared cops so if one fails, you loose 2 cylinders, a horrid misfire and stalls there. but it shows P30x DTC errors for that.
the cOP boots fail ($15 parts cheap) the boots fail first. always, and most times not the COP if ever. ever change out boots at full tune up, and win?
it has Electric EGR not vacuum horror system. so no cat is ok. mostly.
The CMP can be bad.
many fail for hot soak, you park a hot engine it soaks and it now will not start, until colder. that is the electrics in the CMP doing that.
we can say in one line your car.
misfires and stalls hot. that simple.

learn how a scan tool works
here is how.
scan it and pick pending codes, see those P3xx codes DTC errors those are it.

learn that many codes may not show up in the main DTC section until 2 or 3 driver cycles are completed, starting from a cold engine, yes, that sucks but that is how it works.
it hides errors till the boody thing is sure.
but PENDINGs, all scan tools have pending button, all do, find it push it while scanning. this show LIVE TRUE ERRORS.

next is scanning (person 2) while car is hot, and misfiring NOW< and behold, DTC errors, every time. (pending page for sure)



here is you page on that just for you.
here they are.
photo 2 at rockauto.com is beck sensor(top brand)



[Image: 3_22_11_17_7_28_17.jpeg]


$44 beck
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?...87&jsn=333

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11-22-2017, 11:35 PM
Post: #9
RE: high rpm cutout g16b
the ckp is here. rockoauto and beck and $30
http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?...87&jsn=339

a fraction of the cost of any ECU.

both sensors when failed show DTC p03xx errors. all do , if you look while it fails, even a stalled engine dead, you crank for 5 full seconds and will show dead dtc or cmp. or RPM stuck at 0 cranked.


if the engine stalls and stays stalled, and you test spark using cop extender ,you see spark is dead. a big clue.

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11-22-2017, 11:40 PM (This post was last modified: 11-22-2017 11:41 PM by fixkick.)
Post: #10
RE: high rpm cutout g16b
the mechanics cant find it because you took it to them when car ran ok, (the old adage, yah cant fix it if it not broke)sorry !
they can not fix, cars that run. mostly !
but if he scanned it then , it might show a code, DTC, but if you drove the errors off and cleared them , then he sees nothing! OBD2 does like to erase errors... loves. to ...
that is why owning a scan tool pays for its self.
the first time it saves you all that trouble and cash, you just got a free scan tool.. and then earns money every time you use said tool ,from now on and on the next car.

down here a scan tool is about worth 1hour shop labor, charges.
the tool is free. if you see that.

I like the hand held tool. OBD2, with pending mode, shown.
any brand, ok.
if you have a laptop a $50 or less tool can work.

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