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Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
11-24-2014, 02:07 AM (This post was last modified: 11-24-2014 02:10 AM by zukitrek.)
Post: #31
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
(11-24-2014 01:01 AM)fixkick Wrote:  my guess is it shorted an the PO used a bigger fuse and burned up the combo.
like the oldest story in the world this. on all cars.
owners dont understand why fuses exist.

the combo does come apart, you know that i saw you do it.
it has pins. the pin that feeds, relay pin 3 is bad.
find that wire on the combo (colors change by maker on switch side, suzuki never made it, they bought it)
see?
so find that wire, then follow it into the switch and discover contacts that are bad.
it can only 3 things
1 that wire cut (both sides of switch)
2 bad contacts (burned)
3 or the mechanics the close said switch is failing .
all easy to see, and examine.
good luck

At a simple look nothings seems wrong? What can I try? Here some pics.

   

Middle contact is the green wire contact from one side. Next pic is the solder side.

   

   

I removed the black plastic cover to check wires condition and it looks good. Should I test continuity or something. Correct fuse was always used.

Thanks

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11-24-2014, 02:27 AM (This post was last modified: 11-24-2014 02:29 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #32
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
nice photos, first ever. here.

use your Ohm meter , on low ohms scale (resistance)
a short is 0 ohms
open is infinity
this is called continuity checking.
see that solid yellow wire, use the meter to find which contact is on yellow (12vdc fuse power is this line)
then if its like one in photo 1 top. are the taps bendable. if they overheat they get weak and bend down, causing and open circuit.
so bend them back to normal.
do so and test the switch with the meter, for 0 ohms from yellow solid to the yellow green , 0 ohms blinking left or right.
those oblong tabs look distorted to me. see that?
i do not know which contact is the yellow-green but id find it with my meter.
its the wire that goes to pin 3 on the relay. for sure.

G/Y is blink right
G/R is blink left
yellow is power (for blinks only)
Green is relay pulsing power input.
that leaves
Y/Green (suzuki and geo many use different colors here, you will have to figure this out ,via. relay pin 3
with this information you can test the switch on the bench, with any DMM ohms meter.

see this drawing, its accurate, (but is Geo drawing)
see those red arrows. from yellow down this is failing. this path. think of a highway and the river bridge is up, (switch open)]

http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/e...iew&id=116


when you take a photo like that, please twist the wires to that all stripes are in view. so i can help better.

this is phase 1 of switch repair
phase 2 starts when you find actual contacts for solid yellow wire.
id need a photo of the other side of the switches, you only showed, 1 side.
triple sets have some kind of wiper contact that can fail too, there are 2 sides of all switches.
contacts and wipers.
and the mechanics that make the move.

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11-24-2014, 10:33 AM (This post was last modified: 11-24-2014 11:04 AM by zukitrek.)
Post: #33
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
Here they are Fix. Tabs are not bendable. They are flat. Continuity has been consistent from connector to combo and from relay to combo. All wires(solid yellow, yellow/white and green all measured 0.05 on the lowest ohm range. I did find a burnt spot between green wire contact and green/red. Below all the pics I think can help you out.

   
The yellow wire from fuse is the top one at the right. The middle one is the yellow/white going to relay. The ones at the left are green, middle, green/yellow below and green/red top of solid green. I tested resistance from solder point to harness connector and from solder point to really in thew appropiatye wires. Yellow always had 12v. But anyways resistance was okay.

   

This is the burnt spot I told you, and maybe the problem, but don't know how it affects just by looking at it?
   

This is the other side of the combo switch.

   

This is the contact I told you when I first dissembled the combo, way ago, that looked strange. There is metal missing at both ends of that copper tab.

   
This is the connector end of the combo. All pins looked ok and no burns.

Hope you make something out of this.

J

Sidekick 94, 1.6L Engine 16v
4 spd Auto Tranny
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Puerto Rico
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11-24-2014, 12:31 PM
Post: #34
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
use the ohm meter , (continuity checks)
to find what contacts, are yellow,
the switch that connects to yellow is bad.

with meter connect to yellow. pin.
then with other meter lead touch all the contacts , finding the the one that is 0 ohms.
this is the bad switch, then find out why its bad. (observe it carefully)

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11-24-2014, 01:27 PM (This post was last modified: 11-24-2014 02:20 PM by zukitrek.)
Post: #35
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
You mean touch any contacts on that same combo board until I get 0? Yellow is power. So any faulty contact will affect the whole combo? That burn then is insignificant I guess.

(11-24-2014 12:31 PM)fixkick Wrote:  to find what contacts, are yellow,
There is only one yellow? Or you mean all the wires that have any yellow/xxx in it are related to the solid yellow?

J

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11-24-2014, 09:41 PM (This post was last modified: 11-24-2014 10:04 PM by fixkick.)
Post: #36
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
good morn.
yes, use the DMM meter, use ohms scale low. this forms a continuity tester, that can in fact test any switch, for open and close.
its just a simple switch, one step more complex that say a 1850s Edison Knife switch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife_switch
zero ohms is closed. (same reading as meter leads shorted) basic electricity....
infinity is open ( same reading with meter not connected on ohms)

the switch only has one yellow wire (that means it has NO stripes) this wire goes to the fuse called "Turn/ Back" see the drawing it is clear, no?

here ill do a full session test.
the Blinker relay was dead, the power to it was dead, so....... (and fuse is good, and hot 12vdc on both sides)
i find the yellow wire , has 12vdc, to the combo is dead. 0volts key on, suggesting (strongly) that Combo switch assembly, is bad.

i remove combo assembly. (not apart)
i then check the yellow wire pin 19 combo (solid not stripped) 12vdc power wire, to the output of the blinker. with my meter red test lead (set to low ohms scale)
at the same time, i connect. my meter black lead to.
the other Combo pin. 3, that is , yellow-white (white means stipe) other schematics show, yellow-green or yell-blue.
i move the blink lever to right then left the meter must show 0 ohms when selected. if that the combo is bad.
so i take it apart
and again find the solid pin 19 yellow wire. i again, connect my OHM meter (short for resistance scale lowest) to the this yellow wire (solid)
i then find the contact on the card, that shows 0 ohms, this finds the correct contact.
if savvy you can follow the pcb traces from yellow solder pad to the contacts.... yes. there are 2 ways....
once found clean those contacts with scotch brite pads (like mom uses for dishes)
then find the other matching side, clean those. and look for missing springs. or deformed slider, on that side. to that switch. clean , bend as necessary to get the
contacts to work

in some cases, (using wrong fuses) the contact slider, structure (plastic ) melted and no longer fits right and the slider can no longer apply tension to the contacts
this is called , Bad combo day, buy a new one if it can not be repaired. most can but, id have to touch it and see it in 3D vision, to see why it failed.

its real expensive over 200 bucks
https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinf...cc=1271427

the drawing again.
[Image: 3_22_11_14_1_58_45.jpeg]

one other odd fact on working on electrics.
the colors in the book are Suzuki main harness colors, only.
so, if the car has say a mitsubish, comb switch (or other brands , Denso, who knows... huh?)
those switch side colors will be different with different switch makers , on the switch side, Suzuki can not dictate this side, see? Suzuki just buys them and uses them. (same with sensors)
you must learn to read the harness side, first. then......
lets pretend to do that now, see the fuse is yellow wired (again, no stripe)
i see it is yellow as it enters the combo plug pin 19... see that?, now look at the switch side?, that is the color used for 19 on your cars switch, write that down.?
now find the harness yel/wht, then find color at pin 3, on the combo side. it might be yellow green. ?
at this time you now know where pins 3 and 19 are...
and can do the simple continuity tests.

we are testing the continuity of pins, 3 and 19, in left then right mode.
we then find the contacts that wire to pin 3. "yellow no stripe"
that is first.
and last we find out why the contacts 3 fail.
they are just contacts, they are not magic or electronics or other technology just the same as used by thomas edison and mr. Tesla.

the contacts are just brass. and are spring loaded.
the fail only 2 basic ways
1: dirty contacts (corroded or eroded)
2: lost spring tension by any means. (bent, or heat damaged and bent , or lost spring, or melted plastic ,such that the springs are left inactive)

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11-25-2014, 01:52 AM
Post: #37
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
(11-24-2014 10:33 AM)zukitrek Wrote:  This is the contact I told you when I first dissembled the combo, way ago, that looked strange. There is metal missing at both ends of that copper tab.

[attachment=154]
Did you get a closer look to this contact? That is the turn signals brass contact. Its missing material at each end. Or is it designed like this?
I'll recheck everything again.
Have a great day.

J

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11-25-2014, 02:06 AM (This post was last modified: 11-25-2014 02:18 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #38
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
ok, ill try to look, but i dont have spare here, ive never had one go bad, but then , my wires are never allowed to fray or short....

are you saying this burn spot here is missing brass

http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/a...hp?aid=151

if yes, im not sure how to fix that, you might try , new brass sheet and epoxy?
the fuse would blow before that damage, maybe it was blown 90% by last owner (fuse wrong) then you had it over load with a short again. and the 10% brass
could not take normal current or small overload and poof. smoke.
time times thing go bad in stages, not all at once, and damage is progressive.
the car is old and may have had hard times. no>??

ive seen so many cars where owners blow a fuse and wrap it in foil then the wires or $230 switches melt, all for a wire cut at a corner lamp.
not you, the other guy.
you may be , just the owner of a very abused switch. the lamps down draw much.
2 amps time 2 or 4 amps. total but are flashing so is only 2 amps average.
so the contacts last for ever until someone buys crap china bulbs, turns them to hard (like 1gram wrecks the POS lamps) and then it shorts.
now the current is infinity. the fuse blows, and all is good.
if some funny guy , puts foil on the fuse or uses a 30amp, the $230 combo burns up.
that is how it all happens the cure , who knows.?

but being a skin flint, id try to fix it.
id even do epoxy brass rebuilds.
or find one at wrecker.
last new.


tell me, why not find which pads are yellow pad./
then use pc paint and put an arrow to it, and repost the photo.
so i can see what is bad there, or better use a camera with macro feature (switch) and take a real close photo of yellow pad.
then its MATE.
keep in mind ,im in a 2D world (www photos) and your switch is 3D, i cant see 3D at all (like thickness or bends eTC)

the list part (mate) the moving contacts
i can not see what is called REcession.
if the plastic melts the moving contact , holder and base , can melt and recede.
if that happens , it fails to make contact.
if that happens , i shim the lil' bugger.

keep in mind, its just and over glorified knife switch.

brutal, simple to a fault.
one contact moves, other is fixed.

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11-25-2014, 02:26 AM (This post was last modified: 11-25-2014 02:27 AM by zukitrek.)
Post: #39
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
OK. This is the contact I'm referring to.

http://www.fixkick.com/bbs2/Suzuki-bbs/a...hp?aid=153

This contacts is the one that slides across all those signal contacts.

THe one your are showing me is where I think the smoke event occurred and perhaps where the damage is? But yes, I'll run the other tests to rally pinpoint it, hopefully.

J

Sidekick 94, 1.6L Engine 16v
4 spd Auto Tranny
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11-25-2014, 02:49 AM
Post: #40
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
that slider looks good to me so that means the other side is wrecked, burned up.
this is what they do.
one side of the other fails. its just contacts. if the contacts dont mate, then try to fix them so they do.
there is no other way, its just a switch.
if it switch dont close, its damaged
fix the damage. is the only cure.
my guess is the brass pads are blown up. vaporized by huge heat during a short.
if you put say 30 amps through any 10amp connect it blows up. (my guess at rating) It's not normal wear, that, and you saw the smoke, so it did fry.

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