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Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
10-29-2014, 02:51 AM
Post: #11
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
buff it out
the new switch had dielectric grease inside,
and when overloaded they smoke, this does not mean it's wasted as you can see the contracts are not melted, or the plastic black or warped.
the fuse is 15amps.
and is heavy
the lamps are no more than 2 x 4 amps, or 8 amps total. about 1/2 the fuse rating.
if the RR lamp (farthest) shorts it many not blow the fuse. it my just smoke the blinker contracts.
if the connectors are old and rusty, this is common,

so get one lamp to work? pick a corner. and make one blinker work, all other corners removed. ( divide and conquer?)
at the most , only one side of car needs to be fixed. so is just 2 lamps.
pick lift side.
try one lamp only at left rear, (omg, the wires are hacked there. for trail lights?) so common this is crying towel time, i look there day 1)

my guess is the blinker module s bad. (or not really connected or backwards?)

the blinker can be tested in car .
remove all 4 corner blinker lights ( i do that because they short so easy, x10 more easy for china imported carp lamps too)
then using a test lamp
a 12v light on 2 wires.
i connect the lamp from ground, to the output (green) of the blinker module.
i key on and it must blink.
if not the power pin is dead to the blinker
or ground is cut.

if say the power pin is dead that means the combo switch failed to send power to the blinker module
so turn on hazards, this sends a new power source to the blinker module, does that fix it?
this is all first. not ripping parts apart, be shame to wreck a $150 combo for $5 blinker, sure would.

use a volt meter, its not hard at all.
its harmless to you and car when using volts mode..

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10-29-2014, 03:24 AM
Post: #12
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
Yes I know, the thing is that I left the hazard button out when reassembling. Sad( Now I have to put it back sometime?

J

Sidekick 94, 1.6L Engine 16v
4 spd Auto Tranny
4 Door 2RWD
Puerto Rico
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10-29-2014, 03:51 AM (This post was last modified: 11-23-2014 12:53 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #13
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
connect the meter Black NEG lead to body ground (shiny metal not plastic or non steel parts)

not really, if you measure 2 pins on the combo, you only need one working power feed, TURNS fuse
so if the turns pin is 12vdc key on? then that pin is a GO.
see the blinker module? see pin 3? see those colors?
yellow-white must be 12vdc, keyon, is it? this is real easy to do, just $10 voltmeter,
is pin 1 0 volts zero? now?
now check pin2 is the relay clicking or meter jogging from 0v to 12v over and over.
no?
then attach any lamp to pin 2,
this lamp must flash, if not the flasher is toasted.
the acid test would be to unplug the green wire some way then use test light on pin 2, it must flash or the flasher module is bad.
we do that way before ripping stuff apart , not withstanding all wires checked for damage at all 4 corners of car (collision ) and the trailer wire hack jobs.




here, i cut the center of of page 3 if the afor full wiring diagram.
[Image: 3_22_11_14_1_58_45.jpeg]

the red light bulb is any 12vdc lamp or store bough test lamp. (non led type)
pin1 is G200 body ground and is 0v all the time.

this be test one.
if this test passes. we work the other end.

my guess is the green wire is dead.
or the combo switch is 100 % dead.
if green is good
and pin 2 aND 12 ON THE combo fail test light checks , the combo is bad. at the L/R contact set.
if pin 3 is dead then the switch on the right of the combo is dead. or yellow wire is dead, keyon. or fuse blown

you do know that fuses that look ok, can in fact be bad. right?

my test plan above only assumes both the left and right side of car are not shorted.
that be rare. and can be proven.

this tool is sold in every auto store on earth

http://www.amazon.com/ATD-5513-Heavy-Dut...automotive

or one just like it. all shops need this tool.

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11-22-2014, 02:56 PM (This post was last modified: 11-22-2014 02:57 PM by zukitrek.)
Post: #14
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
Sir Fix. just finished back probing the pins you indicated in the wiring diagram. Yellow wire from turn fuse has 12v with key on all the way until combo switch. Yel/white and green wire going into de hazard turn relay have no volts. Black is also no volts with key on. At least in my harness going into the combo switch there is no yel/green/ There is a Green/yell which I tested and has no volts. Are we looking for a bad relay? I totally forgot about these relays. Hope you can make something out of this. Still have not done the good/new bulb test on the turn signals to isolate problem (civic has been keeping me busy lately) anyways let me know what your thoughts are about this. Here is the pic of my harness going into the combo switch.

   

   


As you can see there is no yellow/green going into the combo like in the diagram?

Regards!!!

Sidekick 94, 1.6L Engine 16v
4 spd Auto Tranny
4 Door 2RWD
Puerto Rico
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11-22-2014, 10:29 PM
Post: #15
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
Good day sir. I did not use the the test light, only the needle was used, don't know if the results are the same, but with needle back probing test, no volts reported key on to yellow/white or green. Black was always 0v. Hope this helps you and me.

J

Sidekick 94, 1.6L Engine 16v
4 spd Auto Tranny
4 Door 2RWD
Puerto Rico
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11-23-2014, 12:03 AM
Post: #16
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
So what you mean is I should get the test light for better testing? Needle won't work? Lets say I pinch the green wire with needle and touch it key on will the DMM go from 0 to 12v if there is power to it? Or it does not work that way, only real light? There are 12v from turn fuse and hazard fuse all the way to combo switch but no power to relay in that yel/wht wire (pin 3) going into relay? Nor green? All of this done with the needle. Maybe I'm complicating matters?


J

Sidekick 94, 1.6L Engine 16v
4 spd Auto Tranny
4 Door 2RWD
Puerto Rico
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11-23-2014, 12:15 AM (This post was last modified: 11-23-2014 01:14 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #17
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
lets just do the turn/hazard relay now.
i just added the Suz colors for pin 3 see them. above, this wire changes color on pin3, from combo to relay. see that?
see that yel/green wire, that the color the Combo switch maker uses and can be any thing. (depends on maker of switch)
but at the relay, there will be yel/white or yell-blue there. and green, and black.
TEST 1:
the relay has 3 pins, I need the voltage on all 3 pins, of the relay, (not removed)
the best way to check this is with all 4 blinker lamps, in the car removed. (they do love to short, x10 for China crap bulbs)
the 4 blinkers in all 4 corners of car are Green wires. and the trailer wiring plug, in left rear trail light is not HACKED !!
This test 1 will prove the whole front of car is ok, all wiring up front. The Bench test and 1 to 8 prove the front end is ok. see?
if the front end passes all tests. then we attack the cars main blinker external harness.

1 Ignition key turned ON (dash cluster lamps glow (warnings)
2 blinkers on. make sure this is blinking (this means, grab the turn signal combo stalk lever and select left or right blink mode.)
3 ok all 3 voltages are checked, at relay actual, not the COMBO.
4 now see the red hand drawn lamp above? that is a test lamp, do that next, connect the test lamp ground pig tail wire to body ground
5 touch it to Relay 3, it glows because there is 12vdc there. (if not? the COMBO is bad ! we know it has power and fuse is good before.)
6 then touch Relay pin 2 with lamp probe tip, this simulates a working blinker, and will now blink and you will here the blinker clicking.
7 if it dont blink and click now. the relay is bad. see bench test below.
8 we can bench test the relay with that test lamp, very easy.

BENCH101:
how ? well lets do that now . its not hard at all. Relay out of car.
A using a 12vdc battery , connect minus battery lug to pin 1 on relay.
B then connect battery plus lug, to pin 3 of relay
C then connect the test lamp pig tail ground, to battery minus lug
D then touch the test lamp probe tip to pin 2 on relay, the lamp must flash or the relay is bad. and click. (stock clicks, after market relays may not)

this completes, phase 1 and 2 testing, and 1 bench test of relay.
if we get this far, (i doubt it) we can do the cars MAIN HARNESS LOADS, blinker side next. easy.


[Image: 3_22_11_14_1_58_45.jpeg]

So what you mean is I should get the test light for better testing? YES. Needle won't work?
the meter is great, but the meter will NOT simulate real lamp loads. that is needed to test most blinkers.


Quote: Lets say I pinch the green wire with needle (backprobe) and touch it key on will the DMM go from 0 to 12v if there is power to it? s
at first i thought you are hot wiring the green wire. not now.

my guess is the above is asking does the meter tell the truth, yes, it always does. if there is power to a pin and is 12vdc then that power feed
is working, that is what a DMM does, measures voltage.
the Flasher relay needs 0v on ground and 12v on its pin 2 power pin, if it does, then the relay has power. and is now blinking,
its that simple, but some relays need a load to work right.
the DMM does not present any type of a load, at all. and some relays will fail to work with no load.
that is why I drew a lamp in read hand drawn way, to show me using a test lamp, that creates such a load, (my cars lamps are all remove now)
i told you shorted lamps will not work right. they over load the relay..


Quote:Or it does not work that way, only real light?
There are 12v from turn fuse and hazard fuse all the way to combo switch, but no power to relay in that yel/wht wire (pin 3) going into relay?
Quote:you say this but is the keyon, and the combo in the blinker ON mode?
Quote: Nor green?
All of this done with the needle ([color=#FF4500]please say meter , dmm or voltmeter). Maybe I'm complicating matters?
when you say needle , this can be , backprobling needles/probes. or meter needle, or test light tip probe needle.
confuses me.


when green was dead, was the key on, and blinker combo switch turned to blink left or right?

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11-23-2014, 12:34 AM
Post: #18
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
My bad. Back probing (10

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11-23-2014, 12:39 AM (This post was last modified: 11-23-2014 12:44 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #19
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
to do that test right,
its best to not have any blinker lamps in the car, (i told you they short easy and you ignore this fact)
the relay will not LIKE short lamps or lamp feed wires. not at all.
its your choice to start under the dash, not mine, i start with
all new bulbs or no bulbs.
or just one blub ONLY. on left rear tail.
then test left blinkers, do this lamp work?
yes, or no.
then i pull the relay and bench test it. ok it works.
I then have no lamps in the car. all removed, all blinkers.
then i do test 1 to 8 list above, and use a tea-
see page 3 and 4 here, blickers full schematic?
see the green wire at each light, it must not be grounded out. but if one side were grounded, just that side would fail.

http://www.fixkick.com/power-elect/95%20...mps95b.pdf


this is why I test the relay in the car, steps 1 to 8 first.
this is the middle of the circuit and we gain great knowledge testing here, at the relay
(eg, bad relay or pin 2 or 3 is dead.)
see?
if pin 3 is dead at relay then the combo is dead.
if pin 2 is dead, with DMM and with a test light per steps 1 to 8 , if step 6 fails the relay is bad. end story.
why not just do step 6 first. ?????
using a DMM then a test light
the test light can be any 12vdc lamp (not a LED) the test lamp simulates the normal heavy load of the blinkers.
some blinkers will not blink unless there is a minimum load.

here is the guts of the relay.
my drawing, this is all I know about it, i do not know the trip thresholds for , under load or overload, but it does have them.

[Image: blink-guts.jpg]


most of these relays , have overload sensors and underload.
that is why LEDs fail on cars that use this blinker.
and why they blink at a funny rate of under loaded or overloaded. (by design) some relays go dead, with no lamp loads.
some do that, if one lamp is out (odd rate), warning driver that , yes, a lamp is out.
and some owners of cars, buy a new blinker relay that is not stock or that was sold as "works with LEDs"
so that is why I do the tests , in a worst case method, with a DMM and a real test light.
see?

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11-23-2014, 12:52 AM
Post: #20
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
Got it. Thanks as always. Ill keep you posted.

J

Sidekick 94, 1.6L Engine 16v
4 spd Auto Tranny
4 Door 2RWD
Puerto Rico
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