Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
10-28-2014, 12:56 AM (This post was last modified: 10-28-2014 01:18 AM by zukitrek.)
Post: #1
Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
Hello sir.
Well some smoke came from the combo switch and somehow this affected the shift lever lock mechanism. I disassembled the whole combo switch and nothing looked burnt or melted. This is in addition to the no crank issues which have been on and off and it has been my bad for not checking the wires at the battery (at least the negative, cause positive along with terminal had been replace well before this). I ended up removing the turn signals fuse and removing completely the shift lock solenoid (is this bad?). My question is where would that black wire from the combo end near the fuse box. I know this from a old post I saw (I think it was you) which they tell the person to look for this when turn signals are acting up.

Thanks for your help.

J

[quote]
anything electric that overloads, can fail , weaken or have lower service life.
the bulbs can short.
so the right front blinks perfectly (or dimly) and the RR is dead, dim or what.

LF ok
LR ok
RR what? dead or dim?
RF what?

seems if only RR is bad, then RR is shorted. but is it dim or dread. dime would be shorted and out would be bad lamp or wire cuts. or corrosion in the socket.

this system is super simple system, no computers behind the tails lamps and all that complexity.
just a bulb, a socket and a wire.
100years same thing simple.

the fuse many not blow in an overload
that is because the blinker module, cuts current in 1/2 , flash, out, flash out. 1/2.
and it also limits current.'
and is designed to act odd under overloads.
and the cheap weak suzuki wiring, will act as a current limit, (small copper gauge)

the right side is wired in PARALLEL. so any short on that side, causes and overload. front or rear, or between.
any open on that line will only effect that end of car.
fixkick
click above for , lots of diagnosis and repair data !Idea
(10-27-2014 09:37 AM)zukitrek Wrote:  KIk, I have put the 15a fuse back and turn signal still don't work. I disassembled the combo switch after the smoke event to see if anything was burnt (none was) and when assembling back the hazard connector was left out, Does this has to do with turn signals not working? Now none of the signals work, rear or front.

Update, Fix. All wire/cables coming to battery are inspected clean and in good shape, only the alternator wire that goes into under the hood fuse box was bad but now has been repaired.
The black wire at the combo switch looks Ok and not burnt from what I could see (too many wires going everywhere)

J

Sidekick 94, 1.6L Engine 16v
4 spd Auto Tranny
4 Door 2RWD
Puerto Rico
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-28-2014, 01:39 AM (This post was last modified: 10-28-2014 02:06 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #2
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
ah here is,, was...... thanks.

(10-28-2014 12:56 AM)zukitrek Wrote:  Hello sir.
Well some smoke came from the combo switch and somehow this affected the shift lever lock mechanism.


I disassembled the whole combo switch and nothing looked burnt or melted.
This is in addition to the no crank issues which have been on and off and it has been my bad for not checking the wires at the battery (at least the negative, cause positive along with terminal had been replace well before this).

I ended up removing the turn signals fuse and removing completely the shift lock solenoid (is this bad?). bad only for girls and soccer moms.

My question is where would that black wire from the combo end near the fuse box. (all black wires are ground and none are OPTIONAL)
I know this from a old post I saw (I think it was you) which they tell the person to look for this when turn signals are acting up.
there are many wires with blinks, not just grounds.

Thanks for your help.

J

Quote:anything electric that overloads, can fail , weaken or have lower service life.
the bulbs can short.
so the right front blinks perfectly (or dimly) and the RR is dead, dim or what.????????????????

LF ??
LR ??
RR ??
RF ??
and dash bulb it does what???????? 5th bulb.
can you hear the flasher / click,. ?????????


the right side is wired in PARALLEL. so any short on that side, causes and overload. front or rear, or between.
any open on that line will only effect that end of car.
fixkick
click above for , lots of diagnosis and repair data !Idea

[quote='zukitrek' pid='2870' dateline='1414366641']
KIk, I have put the 15a fuse back and turn signal still don't work.

I disassembled the combo switch after the smoke event to see if anything was burnt (none was) and when assembling back the hazard connector was left out, Does this has to do with turn signals not working? Now none of the signals work, rear or front.
QUESTIONS: keep in mind helped 10 folks fix lighting in 1 week.
easy stuff....
1 do all 5 lamps fail 4 corners and the dash cluster lamp? left and right? are some dim, ?
2 do hazards fail. i wish youd answer this.??? and not having this fact makes diagnosis super hard due to the redundant common path.
3 are some lights glowing dim, in the dark? blinking or NOT?
4 if you remove all 4 corners of lamps, but 1, remaining, does it work right by itself ( best is a brand new lamp here now,, they DO SHORT)[/b]


the best way to fix blinkers is to have only 1 brand new bulb in the system ..'
then try it in all positions.
next we do meter checks. all this is easy with 1 needle probe.
any volt meter works , any , analog or digital. 20vdc range.
Since the blinkers flash an analog meter works best, but my fluke has LCD virtual analog scale , some cheap meters are just 7 segment numbers and just go nuts with blinker signals.
a $10 walfart meter works best, the analog (needle meter) ?

see below drawing and we can do this easy. as pie.

all new lamps in car, no used lamps, no shorted lamps. period, no trailer wiring HACK jobs , allowed. (remove the left rear tail lamp yet and see a HACK job there as many have?)_

no lamp rusty sockets, after all replacing lamps you go ,OMG this is rusty here.. in the socket, then clean it.
meter black lead to body bright metal or battery neg lug.

red lead. is our test lead.
now the meter way. this system is a hot switched system , opposite designed from head lamps. (a mind set statement)
To work in live circuits like this you must have 1 needle probe to back probe all socket pins, live. if not , near impossible , use a leather sewing needle if in great fast need. sold in all walfarts, sewing departments.

test 1 is the hazard fuse, do you have 12vdc key off. on both sides of this fues?
test 2, is Turn/back fuse, same deal as above , but key on, 12vdc both side of fuse? easy huh, we are pushing electrons.
test 3: see page 3? in the pdf, below, ? is the combo yellow wire 12vdc keyon? it must, if not stop, now and fix this. same is true in any step here,
turn on the left blinker lever.
test 4: with key on, and hazards off , at the blinker module must have 12vdc to yell-white pin 3 , if not the comb is bad. (test 3 good) or wire from combo to blink module is bad, cut ,etc.
test 4: blinker module, pin 1 black must never be above 0 v, (never a 12vd) keyon blinking or in hazard mode. ever. or this G200 ground wire is broken.
test 5: the green pin 2 on module , wire must flash in blink mode or in haz mode. keyon. if not the flasher is bad. (note my order here, 1 to 8 )
Test 6: tests do left side, (drivers side, less walking)
keyon still blinking left mode.-
touch combo- green-red pin 1. it must flash, 0v 12v 0v 12v repeats. does it ,or is it like 6v? repeats (low voltage is partial shorts in the harness)
now do right side of combo, at pin 12 green-yellow. lever to RIGHT same test. what voltages to you get.
these 7 tests will show what is wrong, every time.

test 8, turn off blinks, and use HAZARD.
both the 6 and 7 wires now flash, meter needle wags. a cheap digital meter will just go nuts. unless it has an LCD analog scale . like mine. Fluke style.


here is the full schematic, i will talk about pages. and nodes

http://www.fixkick.com/power-elect/95%20...mps95b.pdf



more facts, on blinks. all help.
1: dim bulbs at any time, are there?
2: the blinker modul will act up , if overloaded, by design tell the driver your lights are bad. or shorted.
3: the blinker module will not click or flash if the power pin is dead, the ground pin is dead, or the lamp loads are dead. (no lamps)
4; if any lamp is shorted on the hazard mode, it too will fail.

now i will try to address this.
"My question is where would that black wire, from the combo end, near? the fuse box."
do not listen to persons on the web guessing they can not know what wire is bad, there are too many wires. only the wires shown in the PDF matter, no others, and is just 2 pages (3/4)
what does that mean?, what back wire connected to what connector, please be specific. we have a full drawing there. all black wires are clearly shown in the PDF.

the only combo black ground wire is G200 ground that makes the head lights work. the turns use switched hot, NOT GROUND.
but the blinker module sure does use a black ground wire.
and uses the same dash body G200 ground terminus point.
if you CUT G200 you will lose vast things, in car. huge. For SURE dead headlights.

also i forgot to say
what are all things bad on car, all electrical features, (sure the park lock is defeated, no matter that)

on electrics, the best way to fix any car, (or train/plane, boat)
is fix the simple bad circuits first.
and like magic , say you fix a bad ground 4 more things work for free.
this car has piss poor grounds. it uses the body as ground and that sucks swamp gas..... but can be made to work with due diligence.

http://fixkick.com/
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-28-2014, 01:56 AM
Post: #3
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
(10-28-2014 01:39 AM)fixkick Wrote:  ah here is,, was...... thanks.

1 do all 5 lamps fail 4 corners and the dash cluster lamp? left and right? are some dim, ?
NONE work nor the dash lights for either side
2 do hazards fail. i wish youd answer this.??? and not having this fact makes diagnosis super hard due to the redundant common path.
No Fix, none work nor the dash lights indicating when signals are selected. When I reassembled the combo switch back I left the hazard button out by mistake. Maybe I have to disassemble and put back in order to do proper testing.
3 are some lights glowing dim, in the dark? blinking or NOT?
none
4 if you remove all 4 corners of lamps, but 1, remaining, does it work right by itself ( best is a brand new lamp here now,, they DO SHORT)[/b]
have not tried that yet


the best way to fix blinkers is to have only 1 brand new bulb in the system ..'
then try it in all positions.
next we do meter checks. all this is easy with 1 needle probe.
any volt meter works , any , analog or digital. 20vdc range.

more facts, on blinks. all help.
1: dim bulbs at any time, are there?
2: the blinker modul will act up , if overloaded, by design tell the driver your lights are bad. or shorted.
3: the blinker module will not click or flash if the power pin is dead, the ground pin is dead, or the lamp loads are dead. (no lamps)
4; if any lamp is shorted on the hazard mode, it too will fail.

now i will try to address this.
"My question is where would that black wire, from the combo end, near? the fuse box."

what does that mean?, what back wire connected to what connector, be specfic. we have a full drawing there. all black wires are clearly shown in the PDF.
That is the ground wire you mentioned in the other thread that is a common ground in the combo switch

the only combo black ground wire is G200 ground that makes the head lights work. the turns use switched hot, NOT GROUND.
but the blinker module sure does use a black ground wire.
and uses the same dash body G200 ground terminus point.
if you CUT G200 you will lose vast things, in car. huge. For SURE dead headlights.
Headlight are OK as well as high beam

Hope this help.

J

Sidekick 94, 1.6L Engine 16v
4 spd Auto Tranny
4 Door 2RWD
Puerto Rico
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-28-2014, 02:21 AM (This post was last modified: 10-28-2014 02:32 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #4
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
and does not CLICK now?
ok, hazards dead. and button missing , well , i can not say if this causes the switch to go nuts?. (that is mechanical fault in the switch now)
my wild guess, is the haz is not effecting the blink side. button missin. if it was wrong , all 4 would blink even KEY OFF.

all lamps dead. so do you have 12vdc to the blinker module.?/ jumping to the middle of my 8 tests.
this saves time ,this jump, (called a binary search method in trouble shooting rules)

no, G200 its not a common ground to the switch but is to the CAR.
the black wire runs the head lights . if they work then the G200 is connected to the combo and is working perfect.
G200 forms what is called STAR ground topology. all things G200 to one body screw. (term)
the blinkers use the same G200 just as the drawing shows page 3 and 4.
the blinker combo does not use g200, only the blinker module uses G200 and if cut , the blinker module will be dead, in fact will be power less.

so why not measure the blinker module, all 3 pins. say left blinker, key on.
it has 3 pins.
0v
12v
blinks. volts. (toggles and CLICKS)

if 0v is 0v
and 12v is 12v
and blink pin is dead blinking key on then....
then add a test lamp to ground, there. (it must toggle, click and blinks) if not, its bad.

take any 12vdc lamp (not led ever) and connect one wire to ground
then the other lamp wire to module pin 2 green.
the lamp must flash. (test lamp)]
if not the blinker module is bad.
we can test it on a bench easy with any 12vdc power source or battery same.

on one car long ago, blew fuses (blink fuse)
i installed a circuit breaker There, and used my ammeter.
the left side overloads. , huge currents.
now i burned out the blinker module. doing this bad boy test....
so I removed it, this module, (trash now)
and then used a huge power resistor , or this tool here. at end.
i used a huge, 3 ohm 50 watt or more resistor.
i then hot wired the left blinker side. (keys in pocket)
i found a short mid harness.
if found it using voltage drop tests. as I worked aft, i found the voltage goes to zero, and bam there was this short to body. at the low voltage point. (test point)
now the fancy tool that makes finding shorts easy. see my shorts page.

this tool if needed, has its own circuit breaker and can find any short, with no test leads at all, its MAGNETIC.
[Image: 25100.jpg]


i say all that because, shorts happen and they can do collateral damage. and when that happens, out comes the big guns.. (kinda)

http://fixkick.com/
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-28-2014, 04:28 AM (This post was last modified: 10-28-2014 04:29 AM by zukitrek.)
Post: #5
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
Oh my I guess Ill be suiting up for an intense electronic troubleshoot dive, and a deep one!! This is my achilles heel (electronics), but I'll give it a shot.

J

BTW the signals don't blink at all now.

Sidekick 94, 1.6L Engine 16v
4 spd Auto Tranny
4 Door 2RWD
Puerto Rico
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-28-2014, 05:37 AM
Post: #6
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
good.
hey best way to learn is hands one and real fairures.
in a why its most like plumbing
water pressure is volts
and water flow is current

the blinker lamps are loads, if they short , voltage goes to zero. across a short.

if the voltage it the switch like this:
1: 0volts , the switch is open or its input is dead, or the output is shorted.
2: if like say 3 to 6v the rear of car is shorted, long runs of wire can have partial shorts. that drop the voltgage with tineycheap suzuki wire.
3:if you have 12vdc the lamp then the lamp is burned out. but if the ground pin on that lamp is 12v then the ground is open.

the best way to think of these paths as all being resistors.
in fact they are are.
the voltage test tell me which resistor is failing, like connector is really a low value resistor, say 0.1ohms, if near 12ohms (corrosion) the lamp gets only 1/2 voltage and glows half bright, and the connector burns.

there are some ideas , good luck

http://fixkick.com/
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-28-2014, 06:19 AM
Post: #7
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
Thank you sir. Will try to begin testing tonight. Wife needs the signals soon.

J

Sidekick 94, 1.6L Engine 16v
4 spd Auto Tranny
4 Door 2RWD
Puerto Rico
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-28-2014, 10:10 PM
Post: #8
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
This is how the combo switch connectors looked like when taken apart.

   

J

Sidekick 94, 1.6L Engine 16v
4 spd Auto Tranny
4 Door 2RWD
Puerto Rico
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-29-2014, 01:00 AM (This post was last modified: 10-29-2014 01:38 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #9
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
the contacts can be buffed, gently
they all look ok,
not heavy burns.
looking ways.?
the plastic not broken or burned.
contact not burned up. pitted bad. or eroded to nothing.
no missing springs, no bad slider contacts that touch the above pins
we can find it with a voltmeter.
when we find the voltage drop, BAM , we have it.
its that simple


the flasher module can be tested, easy
even bench tested easy.

i never take a combo apart unit the
inputs are good
and outputs is bad, (low or zero)
no need,ever. (or carefully overhauling it, working in space with no possible loss of screws, springs, balls and other tiny parts. (near lawns/rugs and sinks are bad places)

sorry but we can find this easy with any $10 meter. on volts mode.
easy.
just take the readings, and then report them.
and ill tell you whats bad, or ask for maybe 1 more test.
this is called nodal analysis.

http://fixkick.com/
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
10-29-2014, 02:16 AM
Post: #10
RE: Turn signals out after smoke in combo switch
I this was 2 weeks ago. I learned the hard way. I was lucky enough to not lose the tiny springs and balls. But I have to disassemble it to put back the Hazard button. Everything looked ok, no burns, cracks?
Ohh yes, now I remember, one contact was missing some metal, there was a hole in it from friction? Maybe the culprit? I'll will disassemble tonight I take new pics. I'll keep you posted.

J

Sidekick 94, 1.6L Engine 16v
4 spd Auto Tranny
4 Door 2RWD
Puerto Rico
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)