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94 8v Tracker Timing and Cylender Firing issue
03-15-2019, 10:23 PM
Post: #1
94 8v Tracker Timing and Cylender Firing issue
Hello I am having a really strange issue and need some help. I have a 8v 94 Geo Tracker. The cam locked up due to head gasket. My mechanic got a rebuilt head, new gaskets and put everything back together. He has been troubleshooting an issue the past 3 days and he is stumped!! He can get the car to start but it's only running on cylinder 1 and 4. He turns the cam 180 degrees sets the dizzy to 11 o'clock like we read online . It starts fine but now running on cylinder 2 and 3. No matter what he does or trys can only get it to run on 2 cylinders. He has tested and doubled checked everything and everything is mechanically sound. He puts a timing light to it and its showing that its timed but only running on the 2 cylinders. He said he seen a long Forum online with someone having the same issue. After many pages of post and suggesting everything the guy posted back and said you will not believe what the issue was. He said it was such an easy fix but then said he would not share what it was because the site would not pay him for his information. I hope someone has ran into the issue.
Things we tried
The cam and crank are at that position but dist at 11 and timed at number 4 on the distributor

If I turn cam 6 crank so always 12 it runs on 2 and 3 and no 1 and 4

Timed at 12/12 dizzy 4 it runs on 1 and 4 no 2 and 3

Crack key is good also

Spark Color Blueish purple on all cylinders

cap is good spark is on all wires it's just its only running on 1 and 4 cylinder and if you turn the cam 180 it will run on 2 and 3

I thought of a spark issue,however that wouldn't change cylinders either also the length that spark jumps is am inch or more so it isnt a spark issue from my experience. I haven't referenced kilovolts but dont think its necessary with that length of spark

Dont think its an ECU issue.
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03-16-2019, 12:25 AM
Post: #2
RE: 94 8v Tracker Timing and Cylender Firing issue
no it is not ECU
no its is not bad spark
yes timed wrong, for sure , why is only the question.

not using crap china rotors (C4) that fit on 3 ways are you?, well BOSCH sells them that do not ,as does SUZUKI forever. (a form of Chaos nobody on earth deserves here)_!!!

not too rare today, most mechanics never seen a distributor car, for 20 years, or just forgot. happens, DIS for 20 years now most cars, have DIS, (no dizzy , only 4 coil packs)
he has it timed wrong, and the cam if first NEVER THE DISTRIBUTOR FIRST.
what he failed to do is check compression first. 160PSI at sealevel WOT. (this tells a pro mechanic the engine he just worked over big time is not a mess, it is a audit of your work)
My 91' 8 valve, pulls 155 psi. WOT (dead cold at 72F) and more warm/hot. 155 is sealevel are you?
that proves mostly that he put the cam timing correct.(and lash)
did he check top end oiling first, so you don't burn a 2nd cam up to death? be like #1 on my list give your history, no? i do top oil tests before the fuel pump relay is even ever plugged in.
just cranking it, for top in oiling and the 0.050" head orifice not clogged, test. this is.......

the 11pm is just refr. point not a rule or fact to use, ever, and can be timed in 4 places and run ok , not just 11pm, (harness willing to stretch that far)
on new car 11pm is correct, but not if timed other 3 ways. OK, do you follow this logical fact? just like a old v8 engine same facts.
the other fact unlike some V8s the distriburor has gear drive not and OFFSET key slot, that the later only fits 1 way ever, but the gear is 13 ways, it can be timed, and wrong 12/13.
ok? why is the 12 ways wrong of 13, well the timing slot in the base outside clamp has only very very limited range, so installing any distributor on any pre 1999, G16 must be done correctly.
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/8v-procedure.html

the rotor turns clock wise, for sure,!!! if you dont believe me crank at and watch the rotor, see? CW turns.
i cover all the ways to do it right and wrong here, best I can.
here for you I will do the acid test, (install) (acid test means all factors consider, nothing missing)
1: crank key not wrecked, did you inspect that first? and set it to 94 foot/lbs and the TSB directs ?
1b: crank cog marker at 12pm, mark on oil pump casing,
2: the cam wheel has 60a spoke key mare (#4tdc mark) is now at 6pm (6pm means #1 firing) we could time the distributor to #4 firing (i can) but lets to this by the book so you can TRACK)
3: at this moment, the valve lash on #1 is loose, if not the cam it timed wrong or using "I" marks wrongly and not "MARK" both key and rim marks. must "E" marks.
3b: if you cam is timed wright and lash is wrong then the mech failed to set lash at step 2, new timing belt. i have a page on that.
4: now with distributor in hand (TDC 0 degree's at crank mark pulley, we drop the distributor and say to selves, we will get the 13 tooth gear right now.
5: as you drop the dizzy, it wants to move the rotor so with your hand on the rotor head at 11pm (book way) we
5b: keep repeating this by moving the rotor to a (the gear is spiral cut) so that you antisiapate the gear travel and land the rotor at 11 pm.
sound hard but is NOT. just repeat the drop say 3 time ahhh 11pm just like the day it left CAMI or Awata japan and not the books that talk about this MATCH . (real books not fake like chiltons)

now clamp the distributor bolt down.
next the wires, the cap only fits 1 way so , is not ever wrong.

off my 8v timing page. linked above/.


http://www.fixkick.com/t-belt/t-belt2w.jpg


last is fine (after 4 jugs fire) fine tuniong spark.
with the timing freeze jumper planted in the DLC, I bet he never seen that too. or?





be sad if using C4 (cheap china communist crap) rotors,. a real bloody shame.
knockoffs can suck. tis a fact. and do.

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03-16-2019, 12:27 AM (This post was last modified: 03-16-2019 12:28 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #3
RE: 94 8v Tracker Timing and Cylender Firing issue
if the rotor is crap from china
the tip of the silly rotor fires between rotor cap post terminals. making the CMP useless, rendered,
1,3,4,2 is the firing order
8v ONLY !!! rotor direction is reversed on 16valve car. below is YOUR's
[img] http://www.fixkick.com/t-belt/t-belt2w.jpg[/img]

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03-16-2019, 12:37 AM
Post: #4
RE: 94 8v Tracker Timing and Cylender Firing issue
rotors,. some good , some bad. 8v/16v mixed,

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/geo,...rotor,7136

finding the 8v from 16v is the trick as these guys never ask you which engine you have, (and is wrong to do so, at ROCK)

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03-16-2019, 12:44 AM
Post: #5
RE: 94 8v Tracker Timing and Cylender Firing issue
the correct suzuki p/n is.
3331060C30
not sure GM/GEO but can find it later.
busy now... guest.

Bosch fits, as will DELCO

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Yesterday, 05:41 AM
Post: #6
RE: 94 8v Tracker Timing and Cylender Firing issue
Thanks for the replys. We replaced the rotor and cap, but still having the same issue. We are at a loss!
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Yesterday, 07:17 AM (This post was last modified: Yesterday 07:18 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #7
RE: 94 8v Tracker Timing and Cylender Firing issue
(Yesterday 05:41 AM)chefcrazzy02 Wrote:  Thanks for the replys. We replaced the rotor and cap, but still having the same issue. We are at a loss!

you could walk the cam and distributor, one step at a time. (text book ways)
IN school for 50 year, we did that, 4 cycle engine, rules.
turn the crank to TDC, firing #1 zero degrees. (front cycl is #1)
then off the distributor cap, even have the valve cover off, so see the valves move, and lash loose at TDC.
then know that he cam turns 1/2 speed of crank
the crank turns CW, and every 180degrees a new cylinder is at TDC. to fire, 1,3,4,2, order clockwise. (this order is not like any boxer engine made...)
the Cam fires every 90 degrees turned 1/2 of 180 crank is 90, easy no?.
so if you can see the cam cog wheel to you know that the E marked spoke at 12pm for #1 firing or #4, (lash loose tells you which it is or cam lob actions)
The TDC cylinder firing has loose lash.
so you walk the crank shaft 180 degrees at a time, and see what the cam cog wheel does? and what the rotor does you know it is timed right or wrong.
Im sure you have the distributor timed wrong, or the wires laid down wrong, the GM book has this wrong, so.... do not read it.
I bet if you did that test it would fail, in some way.
the rotor spins CW just like the crankshaft, do not get this wrong and put the wires HV down wrong.
The rotor must land on a cap tower HV connector location at 1,3,4,2, if not , it is timed wrong.
crank
1:tDC
180degrees CW
#3
180 degrees cw
#4
180deg. cw
#2
180deg cw
repeats.


[Image: tdc-look2.jpg]

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Yesterday, 07:19 AM (This post was last modified: Yesterday 07:19 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #8
RE: 94 8v Tracker Timing and Cylender Firing issue
who made your rotor? makers name.? clones suck, (clones mean China no name junk) use only top brand names of ignition parts or it will be painful.

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Yesterday, 11:30 PM
Post: #9
RE: 94 8v Tracker Timing and Cylender Firing issue
the stock rotor (as seen stock and BOSCH) has metal clip there, and this magic clip that cloners fail to use (knock offs suck), (some) keeps the rotor from being installed wrong.
this is the first thing to look at when buying any junk rotor. first.
also test it,
we try to install the rotor wrong, all ways wrong, if can the rotor is CRAP.

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