Poll: Sand down sensor or drop oil pan? Sand sensor base to accommodate gasket Drop oil pan and redo with only gasket sealer
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 Modifying CKP sensor to work with oil pan gasket [96+]
02-26-2019, 01:20 AM
Post: #1
 Samistine Junior Member Posts: 18 Joined: Jan 2019 Reputation: 0
Modifying CKP sensor to work with oil pan gasket [96+]
So it looks like the previous owners oil pan gasket probably wasn’t supposed to be here. The engine in my 96 Tracker was supposedly swapped with another engine from another tracker. There was an oil pan gasket on it when I got it, and I did a pan clean and put a gasket back on with it as was previously.

After 250-300 miles I fooled around with cleaning the battery terminals and trying to fix the cable that goes to the starter solenoid (car refuses to start occasionally and I have to jiggle the cable).

Well after reconnecting the battery and finally getting the starter to turn, I was left with a check engine light for the crankshaft position bank a or something like that.

I do not wish to drop the oil pan and attempt to get it to seal with just gasket sealer.

1. How long does the check engine light usually tend to take to come on for incorrect oil pan gasket usage? Want to make sure it’s not a fluke.

2. Thoughts on sanding down the base of the sensor to match the thickness of the gasket?
02-26-2019, 02:10 AM (This post was last modified: 02-26-2019 02:25 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #2
 fixkick helperbee Posts: 4,406 Joined: Apr 2013 Reputation: 13
RE: Modifying CKP sensor to work with oil pan gasket [96+]
did you ever post your CKP errors, P0335 was it?

i see someone voting on a hack and true fix, only you can sand a sensor to see if it works now or kills it, it is your $40 sensor , do to that, but I do know for a fact ID try it. (lacking Xray access like I used to have, I'd still try it) there are vast makers of sensors, some may work stood off that far , only trying them all at great cost answers that and can change in the next batch of sensor to fail (natural mfg variances) the battery cables are bad or the top bolt on the starter battery cable is loose, such and easy fix all this, new cables or clean and tight 4 ends? toss coin or do it. The ECU is very complex device, for sure OBD2 rules did you read the page in the FSM first on 335s? the chapter 3 shows all facts on 335, the 1 in 20 rule, if the CPK pulse is lost 1 time on 20 crank spins or is it teeth, I bet teeth. yes pulse = teeth, The ECU will show this error fast. a dead CKP sets 335 fast. id say in 1 instant bam 335., but engine may need to be warm. and 335 self clears after 40 (not a typo) start engine warm ups. over 150f is warm. so the book says.... this is no hall sensor,it has only 2 wires, and is 360 to 460 ohm coil, inside,(factory sensor spec) and the signals are very weak. just tiny 1v signals and the cable has a shield if the shield is damaged in any way the signal will fail to reach the ECU, the ECU has a special amplifier there to make this signal larger to trigger the logic in the ECU. (called a zero crossing detector) so getting that coil sensor closer to the tone wheel spikes is a wise choice. how you do that is yOUR CALL. Suzuki built that engine and ran 20 years with no CKP errors so the answer is obvious to me. what is wrong, the signals are weak. or even dead. page 36 shows these facts (well some) https://web.archive.org/web/201011191114...t3-pdf.htm how long, well you can test that any time you want start engine, get it warm, then unplug the CKP connector (see that long) easy no? i think the answer is as fast as you can run to the steering wheel and look. called OBD2 catastrophic error class (instant) P0300's can take 3 trips to see em' (misfire) but not CKP dead, it's 1 second I think. (1 in 20 pulses lost it sets) but may clear faster. (millisecond sure) most cars made if CKP dies spark and injections end in seconds. (instant) but not this car, it's unique in this very special way. sand away it is your sensor, if it was my car id have sanded it long ago. (not ever wanting to pull the pan a 2nd time)$40 or 10 yours labor, hmmmmmmmmmmmm no brainer to me. (time or labor the endless conundrum of life)

this is all faraday's laws here, electomagnet, the coil inside is very simple. and closer is better.
all equation elements are fixed, just distance and the magnetic flux density changes by distance, all you can do is change distance. (gap)
this simple math page covers this.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hba...arlaw.html

and RPM or pulse rate effects are here. (v = velocity) changes voltage. but 800rpm is a given.
In physics (specifically in electromagnetism) the Lorentz force (or electromagnetic force) is the combination of electric and magnetic force on a point charge due to electromagnetic fields.
A particle of charge q moving with a velocity v in an electric field E and a magnetic field B experiences a force of

F = q E + q v × B {\displaystyle \mathbf {F} =q\mathbf {E} +q\mathbf {v} \times \mathbf {B} } {\mathbf {F}}=q{\mathbf {E}}+q{\mathbf {v}}\times {\mathbf {B}}

so yes, gap less more Voltage more force. EMF

there is no fluke, the signal good , the signal is bad or the signal is intermittent the ECU does not lie to you its real, in all cases.
if it pulse is missing 1 in 20 it fails. and the #1 reason is , putting pan gasket where there must be none is the cause, (all other things cured first, wires bad, sesnor damaged)
you already know that ! I hope....
the tone wheel can be damaged. teeth missing or bent is common on this car.
the keyway on the crank damaged and that makes the tone wheel wobble and will set 335 codes (17mm pulley bolt loose endless on this car)
there are in fact lots of ways to fail for 335.
bad crank end snout damage and or the key and key way. wrecked.
bad belt, it flops around and drives the ECU nuts due to gross illegal variances in the pulses.
the pan gasket is there. and must not be so. (the FSM is clear on that and is not myth or rumor it is a fact)
seen even very cracked cam main clog wheel make CKP act up (and it jogs)
jogging means illegal movement of the cam, crank, belt or cogs or the tone wheel. (jitter and jog)

http://www.fixkick.com
02-26-2019, 02:13 AM
Post: #3
 fixkick helperbee Posts: 4,406 Joined: Apr 2013 Reputation: 13
RE: Modifying CKP sensor to work with oil pan gasket [96+]
the CKP will want to fail at idle, 800rpm
this is the max low RPM
and is lowest Velocity. and lowest pulse voltage from CKP coil
so idle.
on other cars, not this car, lowest CKP is cranking, with low battery the crank moves slower, and no spark happens now. (non HALL)

http://www.fixkick.com
02-26-2019, 02:13 AM
Post: #4
 fixkick helperbee Posts: 4,406 Joined: Apr 2013 Reputation: 13
RE: Modifying CKP sensor to work with oil pan gasket [96+]
at least your car runs, most cars like this will be dead.
thanks to Mr Joe SUzuki.

http://www.fixkick.com
02-26-2019, 02:15 AM
Post: #5
 fixkick helperbee Posts: 4,406 Joined: Apr 2013 Reputation: 13
RE: Modifying CKP sensor to work with oil pan gasket [96+]
Id file away, with no guilt, I'd to for 0.020" cut. (what ever gasket depth , that) TWENTY THOU!

http://www.fixkick.com
02-26-2019, 02:15 AM
Post: #6
 fixkick helperbee Posts: 4,406 Joined: Apr 2013 Reputation: 13
RE: Modifying CKP sensor to work with oil pan gasket [96+]
the sensor sits on pan, not block so....

http://www.fixkick.com
02-26-2019, 02:31 AM (This post was last modified: 02-26-2019 02:33 AM by Samistine.)
Post: #7
 Samistine Junior Member Posts: 18 Joined: Jan 2019 Reputation: 0
RE: Modifying CKP sensor to work with oil pan gasket [96+]
Okay thanks, just find it weird that it didn’t set any ckp codes for 300 miles. I cleared it and it didn’t come back, yet.

When I was retightening the crank cog bolt, I toke the cog off and noticed it wasn’t a tight fit, the crank key was fine and no damage visible. I already ordered a new cog and bolt and will be installing them next month. Also I overtorqued, and snapped, one of the five bolts holding the accessory pulley to the cog. So running with 4 bolts right now. Luckily won’t have to extract that bolt since I will be replacing the whole cog.

Anyways, maybe all I need to do is replace the cog. Would make sense given how it doesn’t set the check engine code immediately. Also, Totally worth 40$to try sanding it down. I think I’ll buy one of the$20 CKP sensors and try sanding with that first.
02-26-2019, 07:19 AM
Post: #8
 fixkick helperbee Posts: 4,406 Joined: Apr 2013 Reputation: 13
RE: Modifying CKP sensor to work with oil pan gasket [96+]
yes, a sensor can be marginal.
and even a hot day can make it fail.
lets say the amp needs at least 0.5v to trip.
and the sensor is outing 0.6v (and is what we say marginally working)
the the engine and sensor get hotter and the voltage is .49v and CKP fails.
in electronics we use what is called a guard band to prevent this, from north pole hot to death valley Calif, hot.
if you stand a sensor off the block too far that make the guardband go away or 99% away .
vast G16 engine have bad cog, its like the #1 engine part to fail due to nobody owns a torque wrench or reads TSBs'
the accessory pully bolts are 6mm and rated for 7 ft/lbs max or 100inch pounds, or they snap and worse of all the heads are 8mm not 10 as ISO rules demand the heads are non standard and hit the pulley edges hard if use ISO 10mm hex head bolts..

the crank cog fits tight, if lose it will wobble and wreck the key even with 94 ft./lbs on the 17mm bolt.
its tight fit, never lose.
The ECU does not like having the cog jog. (no pun) it does not like that. It will throw misfire codes or 355 ckp, fails. random.
the cog is not expensive.
its listed here.
http://www.fixkick.com/t-belt/damage/index.html

see the table there., cog lower.?
see pn. #12630-57B01
https://www.suzukicarparts.com/parts/199...eid=214820

even the queer 6mm screws are there. (most folks just use Allen or torx bit screws 6mm and works. not using hex heads at all.

good luck , if the CKP acts up, and is not the CKP caused, then that cog is flopping about like flounder.
cheers.!

http://www.fixkick.com
03-20-2019, 12:34 AM
Post: #9
 Samistine Junior Member Posts: 18 Joined: Jan 2019 Reputation: 0
RE: Modifying CKP sensor to work with oil pan gasket [96+]
“the crank cog fits tight, if lose it will wobble and wreck the key even with 94 ft./lbs on the 17mm bolt.
its tight fit, never lose.“

I bought a new crank cog, key, and bolt and the fit is the same. No improvement. I had driven 300-400 miles with the old crank cog and it was still tight when I took it off. Jammed (gently) some angled alluminum (L shaped) in the flywheel to hold it still.

DTC code has yet to come on for anything other than the EGR valve which seems to come on sometime around every 200 miles.

Should I still consider sanding down the CKP sensor? You say it should throw a code real fast if there’s an issue. If that’s true than my issue isn’t with the CKP sensor.
03-20-2019, 12:53 AM
Post: #10
 fixkick helperbee Posts: 4,406 Joined: Apr 2013 Reputation: 13
RE: Modifying CKP sensor to work with oil pan gasket [96+]
I bought a new crank cog, key, and bolt and the fit is the same. No improvement. I had driven 300-400 miles with the old crank cog and it was still tight when I took it off. Jammed (gently) some angled alluminum (L shaped) in the flywheel to hold it still.

DTC code has yet to come on for anything other than the EGR valve which seems to come on sometime around every 200 miles.

Should I still consider sanding down the CKP sensor? You say it should throw a code real fast if there’s an issue. If that’s true than my issue isn’t with the CKP sensor.

-------------------------------------------end quote--------------------

the 1996+ will not run good with any P3xx errors of any kind,
EGR is P4xx codes, and means that 1 of 2 EGR tests fail. and is common. thus, if the EGR is sticking the car will LOVE to stall at every traffic stop.
that is because it closes just before it stops say at 1mph. speed.
the EGR caused stall will make the engine shake hard and misfire.

The I have no idea at all of sanding the CKP can make it work better (sure in magnet theory (faradays laws etc) but I have no idea at all how deep that plastic is, and so how far one can go, and not wreck the sensor, not me, IDK , i don't know.
The 1996 year added 1 new EGR test (A and b) and added a new EGR MAP sensor that is 10x more accurate finding bad EGR.
2 top fails are EGR main is bad, or the mono port Egr is packed in carbon.

http://www.fixkick.com/EGR-choice.html

http://www.fixkick.com
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