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90 sidekick plenty problems, strange setup? almost there *hoping*
02-01-2019, 03:49 AM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2019 12:42 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #1
90 sidekick plenty problems, strange setup? almost there *hoping*
Hi everyone, I really could use some guidance on this one. It’s a 1990 8v, 155k mi, MT 4x4, JLX, A.C., pw window and lock, Japanese made (plate says) sold in USA likely calif with egr. And I’m having some weird problems.
I will answer in line and in RED, WELCOME brother Suzuki owner,, from the Islands.
Here’s the story.

Bought her a few years back, ran ok, not great could use a tune up but about what you’d expect from your average used, motor cranks slow and runs 80%, all parts were there and she went through her sequencing fine, great!! Got her home, gave tuneup, Bottle o cleaner, oil, changed out everything from the rotor to plugs, cleaned all grounds and connections, fuse boxes, relay, added ground from batt to body, new one for starter. Worked a champ 100% full power, starter spun its head off. Proceeded to do everything else non engine, brake, 4x4, ext
NICE WORK THERE!

Now the fun begins.

Had a hurricane sweep us with plenty rain, hit some big puddles, huge lakes almost water flying like a rooster tail off a speedboat with a 454. Deeper than expected!! She didn’t even blink, very impressed. The road to our place, now a raging river bed, was worse. One car already completely under water at the “intersection”, fork in the river as 3 converged to one, looked to be a class 2, or 3 rapid. Went the other way, was inching into a puddle just so happened to start sputtering out but was able to feather her back roaring again, made a couple runs to make sure she wouldn’t poop in the middle of the lake, sputters but will rev and stay revving, chokes sputters and dies at idle, restarts. Ok a wet plug probably not surprised. Roared her up and feathered the clutch through the lakes, stopped at a big one to check depth, sputtered out and wouldn’t restart. Neighbor with 4 foot lifted yota was busy that day.
use 4wd, in Low range is crawl in water but not near head light bottoms,.


DRIVE DEAD SLOW IN DEEP WATER IF THE AIR HORN NEAR LEFT HEAD LAMPS SUCKS WATER YOU BEND RODS AND CRACK THE CRANK. OK?


Ok so she leaked into the cab in the rain, computer appeared to be dry, ran hose, found the leaks patched, dried her out, fuel pump not coming on, blowing fi fuse great, pulled all the connections again, blasted them, fuel pump connection behind tail light too, didn’t blow fuse with all unhooked, hooked 1x1 but never blew it again, cranked right up BUT sputtered at low rpm acceleration especially wot would choke and just start dying. Sometimes worse than others. Sometime not at all, intermittent my favorite. Once you got past a certain rpm she would roar no problemo.
THE 90 YEAR CAR HE PUMP ONLY RUNS CRANKING OR RUNNING, NOT KEY ON . See rules on 89/90 (but has temperature exception. ,,,,>15f (below 15 degrees F, the ECU sees this very cold weather and runs the pump only key on, each time for 3 seconds, like all 91+ do any time.)

http://www.fixkick.com/INJECTORS/89/89-pump-relay1.jpg


Dried her out for months, she ran great again not a problem.
Then she started sputtering (misfiring) a little again. (water in the distributor cap will do that,ever time)
Then the next day the idle was off the chart, about 3k, went down to 1.5. Fiddlered with sensors to quick check. Then restarted after cold, was trying to idle down a few times but didn’t make it, stayed about 2-2.5. (2500 rpm) is too high at 70f ambient air)

So n ( did you do first step always check for DTC ERRORS, DIAgnostic, jumper? 12 flashes good all others bad?
learn that limphome mode, cancels idle controls, so... 12s is first. ok?
jumper B to C, here. 4 pin DLC connector siting naked in front of battery, key on read codes. even run engine see codes. .
Make sure dome fuse not missing or bad or DTC codes can not be stored, (in ecu memory)[/color]


Tried hopelessly to id the components but still looking, has the electric idle controlller with air and water ports. 1990. Double shared connected for the tps, 3 ECTs??? And a iat.
my sensor page helps as does my parts finder pages, even for 89/90s, i have lots of photos.
I have page the see why your car is not like 91 to 1998 sidekicks (this is very useful if reading lame books that cover 89/98 and full of lies about say your 90)
http://www.fixkick.com/specs/89-diffs.html

the sensors are all here. (some or yours are missing connectors, as are all 89/90)
sensors

http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/testing-the-sensors.html

Pinched most vac hoses and nothing, most are new by my and po, couple more to check, unplugged iac electric and small decrease in idle from second time on, big connector ect and iat made her go limp and throw light, map made limp, DP retracts!!!!! (DP must never stick extended ok? and that is nice work you are doing there,,,, pinching hoses

Popped cap off iac plunger free, pulled air horn, covered intake with hand went down to very low idle, barely going, could hear pulling air somewhere close to the tb, suspect that one of the iac bypass, egr, or leak. Leaning toward the first two couples with a bad sensor.
Y0U HAVE A HUGE VACUUM LEAK, FOR SURE
ONLY FINDING IT CAN BE EASY OR VERY HARD, EVEN BAD BOTH GASKETS IN THE TB CRACKED, EVEN THE MID GASKET.
PULLING THE IsC ELECTRIC, if IAC WORKS, PROVES VACUUM LEAK, AND DP MUST BE RETRACKED (FIRST THING TO EYEBALL IS THIS, IM NOT SHOUTING'
BUT IS EASY TO TYPE OVER YOUR TEXT, IN CONTEXT....

I almost remember her not starting and fiddling with the dome light and it starting.

Now have to get deep and dirty again, test the iat, tps, iac’s, block port way too, maybe the mechanical one is chunked,
I am confused by what I see, 3 ECT’s???? (sorry NO, ECT , IAT, water gage sensor, and AC overheat trip switch sensor) are all there, if AC present.)

maybe this had an automatic before need to check the intake for the extra vac port. (see my dual manifold photos with 3speed modulator vacuum port?
Am I missing something? Sound familiar?? (look for manifold nipples empty is first. ok?).
that hand blocking air horn test is extreme testing (good) and shows horrible air leaks. Brake booster too, all things connected to the intake manifold are subject, do not assume , anything, or go astray. (old cars)
one guy I helped on a chat line, had the car from H3LL, for sure, we did like 50 tests. (huge) and found out by long hard work, that the TB was bad
we then found every gasket in it was bad. sucking air.
we fixed that (he) and it still sucked air, the damned TB was bad. Someone one long ago ran pure water for AF, and the TB cracked inside where no human can go (IAC parts inside sure) and sucked air no matter what any human cold do. (so this is extreme but my point is, IT CAN HAPPEN)

We do the tests to find the leak, sometimes its 2 things, (yah a pain that) but we do not give up.
we do this:
[Image: 3_04_02_19_8_25_32.jpeg]

now my fixkick answers, all on topic below.:
Old cars fail and suck air, nature abhors vacuums on earth. loves to find a path ,like Movie Aliens 3/ sucked into space?
These are all vacuum leaks, and all leaks in all 8valve engines (TBI) cause fast idle and with full power from engine, the vacuum leaks do NOT Cause, MISFIRring, the wet distributor does that. I bet.

here is the list, all vacuum leaks fast idle and full power.
1: hoses missing or fell off or melted or cracked, causing vacuum leaks, (large list of parts, huge really )
2 bad gaskets. (all of them, every single one, even manifold to head gaskets, all TBI gaskets, (A/t has 1 extra for heater) the TB has one top center.
3: ISC (electric) stuck open . (can be blocked with fake blocking gasket to prove not sucking air this)
4: iAC in base TB failing or simply hot water fails to reach it and it sticks open 150f it is closed. 100%
5: TV valve blockd by EGr/Pcv GUNK.
6; DP STUCK OUT. (this really is first of all, see it hang out extended is BAD and hard failure, (easy fix mostly)
7: Sorry so long but so many leaks possible. (the AT car (only of not hacked) has its own vacuum port for the vac, modulator, on trans.3sp)
8: brake booster diaphragm inside is cracked, oops. (block the hose with a cork, do not drive with booster off line , ok?)
9: some goofy PO (previous owner) put on wrong PCV valve. and leaks horribly (it has and orifice inside calibrated to engine displacement)
10: if vsv valve is bad can stuck open? (egr,evap,DP) they suck air. evap only opens moving, EGR any time throttle is advanced., DP full time has vaccum running, after the 15second delay.


THE base TB IAC IS TRICKY TO TEST , SCREWS RUSTED there.

ok,, first make sure both water hoses are not clogged to then that you can blow through the IAC nipples. both oops 1 hose.
the other path is here.

the TB IS VERY TRICKY
SEE HERE
http://www.fixkick.com/IDLE-AIR/Slide_Sh...ge_16.html

SEE H2O THAT IS IAC HOT WATER TO IAC.
see holes must be blocked, tricky no?
IAC OUT, ABOVE, JPG IS AIR, IF YOU MADE BAD GASKET AND BLOCK IAC OUT ABOVE, PROVING FOR SURE, IAC IS GOOD OR BAD.
TEST IAC LAST IT'S BIG WORK SO LAST.
here it is, exposed, (1991 looks different with diffr. ISC valve)
this data is my testing many to learn true spec, and gaps..... 150f close is text book, SUzuki.
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/sensor-ic...ermo1w.jpg

links to sensors. (look like and how to test)
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/testing-the-sensors.html
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02-01-2019, 05:50 AM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2019 12:58 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #2
RE: 90 sidekick plenty problems, strange setup? almost there *hoping*
I am confused by what I see, 3 CT’s???? (3 ECT sure, one for gage, one for ECu and one to kill AC IF ENGINE OVERHEATS.0
WHAT IS CT'S?

back in the dark ages of EFI (1989) they used the old names , used say by GM 1980's TBI V6 or V8 engines.
CTS, (coolant temp sensor is now not used, in this industry (cars) EFI.
ECT is the new name (engine coolant temperature)
IAC is Intake air temp)
TPS is throttle position sensor or throttle angle too.
The other sensors there are this.
1 wire, engine temp sensor to dash cluster gauage.
1 wire yellow-blue , wire sensor to A/C engine overheat (kills AC dead, if engine overheats)
The IAT looks like ECT, but has very low mass, so its faster reacting, but uses the same rules on ohms (resistance charts)
I check the ECT connecting with an ohmmeter, 300 ohms is 180F , this proves 2 things at once: engine really is hot, 180f and the sensors is working.
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/temp-sensors.html
the 89/90 engine has different connections, these 2 years.
any $10 DMM meter can do this, even from walmart.



http://www.fixkick.com/IDLE-AIR/more-pho...uction.jpg

page just for your car on vacuum leaks.
http://www.fixkick.com/IDLE-AIR/89-90-idle-air.html

if gasket 20 cracks too,
idle screams.

http://www.fixkick.com/IDLE-AIR/89-90-id...stop-screw

these to can all crack
http://www.fixkick.com/IDLE-AIR/more-pho...tkit8v.jpg

the 89/90 has more ways for ECU idle up logic
Blower on, (heater or AC)
head lamps on, idle up
rear glass defrost heater on.
see diode box here, this is "OR" logic for idle up commands to ECU. turn them all off. and trans in neutral, and then set hot idle to 800 with the screw.(TB)







and this
http://www.fixkick.com/IDLE-AIR/1989-90/...index.html

and this.l
http://www.fixkick.com/IDLE-AIR/more-pho...uction.jpg


http://www.fixkick.com/IDLE-AIR/Slide_Sh...%20IAT.jpg

i made this to show 3sp and 5sp differnces side by side.

http://www.fixkick.com/engine/8v-Show-bo...ge_28.html


and blocking the brake booster big hose, not fun but one more nasty vacuum leak
hope all this helps you.

gota go, fly 777

http://www.fixkick.com
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02-01-2019, 05:52 AM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2019 12:59 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #3
RE: 90 sidekick plenty problems, strange setup? almost there *hoping*
I'D BET non of this is permanent water damage, just random even all cars this old do.
spark plug caps got wet and when dry spark is good. for sure on the faster drying 8v.
misfire would be water under the distributor cap easy.
or worse (whole distrib full of water and is not waterproof at all. resistant use if the gaskets there, most are missing under cap.

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02-01-2019, 05:52 AM
Post: #4
RE: 90 sidekick plenty problems, strange setup? almost there *hoping*
Vac leak had to get all the way in there to find it. Round two
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02-01-2019, 05:58 AM
Post: #5
RE: 90 sidekick plenty problems, strange setup? almost there *hoping*
CTS, auto correct got me, Coolant temp sensors, one at stat one above the big one for engine w green connection.


Tried to dry the cap and plugs but wasn’t doing anything, idled fine, didn’t like a hot start. Going to check the timing, new belt, check the thermal iac ports, maybe egr? Need to do more research on her systems try figure out what’s here. There’s no A/T gear that I can find
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02-01-2019, 06:33 AM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2019 01:01 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #6
RE: 90 sidekick plenty problems, strange setup? almost there *hoping*
if the 2 parts missing for 3sp (SEEN LOTS OF CARS WITH MIXED PARTS , X10 THIS OLD) Old cars have this bad habit of missing parts or mixing AT parts with MT engine. or reverse. the A/T intake manifold has 1 more vacuum port nipple.
1:; vacuum nipple for vacuum modulator hose to 3sp box.
2:: that silly TB base heater not there
then see is 100% 5 speed if ECU shows MT LOGO ON ECU LABEL.

HOT START BAD, Well of you have huge vacuum leak the engine inject for no leak and goes lean.
find the vacuum leak first, this is serious issue,

after cranking cycle ends the ecu ENDS THAT MODE AND GOES TO RUN MODE AND ENDS LEAN. (MAP WAKES UP)

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02-01-2019, 06:35 AM
Post: #7
RE: 90 sidekick plenty problems, strange setup? almost there *hoping*
REALLY ,YOU WILL FIND THE LEAK OF AIR(VACUUM) I AM SURE
i CAN HELP.
AND TB GASKETS THIS OLD OMG.

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02-01-2019, 06:37 AM
Post: #8
RE: 90 sidekick plenty problems, strange setup? almost there *hoping*
THE 4TH THERMAL SENSOR IS IAT

AIR TEMP
NEWER NAMES ARE HERE

http://www.fixkick.com/EFI-1.html

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02-01-2019, 06:38 AM
Post: #9
RE: 90 sidekick plenty problems, strange setup? almost there *hoping*
JUST LIKE SHOOTING DUCKS 1 AT A TIME AND WIN THE STUFFED BEAR
LOL

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02-01-2019, 08:18 AM
Post: #10
RE: 90 sidekick plenty problems, strange setup? almost there *hoping*
Much Thanks Kick, you’re a legend!! Sorry For the name confusion, incredible work you’ve done!!

Ah hah one for the A.C. shutoff, ok no sharing I guess

Doesn’t appear to be frankensteined, haven’t found any 3sp parts.
Vac leaks are pau, just gotta get her back together and see what she says today.
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