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No turn over when engine is warm.
08-16-2018, 03:51 PM (This post was last modified: 08-16-2018 03:59 PM by Pavel14.)
Post: #1
No turn over when engine is warm.
Our '94 Sidekick with the 16 valve 1.6 engine runs fine - starts every time when cold. But if I turn the engine off after running a few minutes, it is completely dead for about 10-15 minutes. Only after this "cool off time" or down time, will it start again. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks. Pavel14.
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08-16-2018, 08:22 PM
Post: #2
RE: No turn over when engine is warm.
this is called hot soak, won't crank
or hot soak , won' t start... but cranks robustly. which is it please.

is the starter motor dead hot, silent ,clicks,chatter, spins but engine doesn't spin or actual cranks ok but engine fails to Start.
all of those are possible.

if the starter works perfect hot, (its job is only to spin the engine crank the engine fast, if does and does not start , this can be flooding.
if it floods, (suspect) the hold the throttle to the floor, and crank this trick cuts all fuel at the injectors, and clears the flooded engine.

here are the steps.
turn key on, see all lamps in cluster glow, (hot or cold engine)
see CEL glow. check engine light (or SES, service engine soon)
crank the engine now,
is the starter spinning fast engine crank shaft, if not cranking, wiggle the shifter on the AUTOMATIC trans if fitted, if not auto, but a stick shift push the clutch pedal harder to the floor.
now the starter must crank.

also the Diagnostic jumper must show code 12 blinks.







(08-16-2018 03:51 PM)Pavel14 Wrote:  Our '94 Sidekick with the 16 valve 1.6 engine runs fine - starts every time when cold. But if I turn the engine off after running a few minutes, it is completely dead for about 10-15 minutes. Only after this "cool off time" or down time, will it start again. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks. Pavel14.


what is your drive line, engine, is 1.6L 16v G16B connected to which of 3 transmission, 5speed stick , 3speed auto, 4speed auto, and is it 4wd car.
even door counts help me( wiring varies by door counts and all the above)

http://www.fixkick.com
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08-16-2018, 08:24 PM
Post: #3
RE: No turn over when engine is warm.
the word turns over means nothing. sorry.
the starter and the engine turns. both turn over,
starting is whole different thing
cranks
starts
runs and sustains running, (EFI does that magic)
this is what and engine does, in that order, please.

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08-17-2018, 01:54 AM
Post: #4
RE: No turn over when engine is warm.
Thank you, Fixkick.

The vehicle is a 5 speed, 4wd, 4 door freebee I received from a neighbour. The vehicle has only 47K kilometers (less than 30k miles) and spends its life in a damp climate although it is very warm 26C/80F around here, this time of the year. The starter seems completely dead when this "heat soak" problem shows itself. I'm not aware of a "click" sound (solenoid engaging?) even happening. Is the "heat soak" problem solenoid related or is it the starter itself? I'm not familiar with Suzukis at all yet - would it help to protect the starter from exhaust heat using a simple shield?

My first thought was the safety switch (clutch pedal pushed in at starting) was not working and next time, I'll push the pedal all the way down to the floor a few times to see if that solves the problem.
The next step is to remove the starter and repair/replace the solenoid?

Cheers, Pavel14
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08-17-2018, 04:03 AM
Post: #5
RE: No turn over when engine is warm.
wow a near virgin car, 30k miles, super amazing RARE.
they drove 1000 miles a year,. sounds like me now, retired,
so if the clutch switch fails, the starter will be dead.
OK dead starter hot. we are now on TRACK, like a laser beam....

do you own a voltmeter,? this becomes super easy if yes,. simple tests and FACTS are clear as day.

know that starters fail many reasons. (sure heat shields help but the heat on this car is zero, the exhuast is left side and starter is right side of engine block, unlike my jeep. (facts)
it worries me there is no click and state-side we don't buy solenoids, ever, just whole starters.


1: battery gets hot and fails, this is like 99.9% failure rate (batteries love to do the , my jeep did last week with 2013 battery) the battery now reads 10vdc, omg a dead cell in battery.
charging battery was no cure.
2: connections bad, all 3 can fail, ground, battery cable, and key line(there is no relay here as seen on a JEEP)
3: bad starters, some do fail hot, but adding shield only gets you , stalled far from home ,(hoping shield works here)

testing 1,2,3, get a dmm meter,
turn the dial to the 20vdc range.
when the car will not CRANK, measure the battery voltage 12.5v is normal (10 not) , are the lugs clean , is the top starter bolt to minus battery cable bolt tight at starter.
the cables have 2 ends each 4 places to look for RUST, and for loose. (rust means "corrosion of ANY KIND)
then if cables are all good, cheaked out, next is one more test, this is the acid test (as in litmus test in chem class)
2 man test, or 1 man 1 kid,
you with meter kit at key, in neutral gear, 4wd box in neutral too, (kid at wheel) hand brake set hard, front wheels chocked, safety first. ok?>
meter across battery. terms., 12.5v on the meter reading. if not stop fix that first. bad battery or dead alternator.
tell kid to step on clutch pedal and turn key
the meter goes to to 10v its ok and engine cranks, below this at 8v the solenoid chatters. below 8v, the solinoid clicks only,and lower that that silence.
That is how the battery and starter work;


ever jumper start a dead starter? use cabhles



(08-17-2018 01:54 AM)Pavel14 Wrote:  Thank you, Fixkick.

The vehicle is a 5 speed, 4wd, 4 door freebee I received from a neighbour. The vehicle has only 47K kilometers (less than 30k miles) and spends its life in a damp climate although it is very warm 26C/80F around here, this time of the year. The starter seems completely dead when this "heat soak" problem shows itself. I'm not aware of a "click" sound (solenoid engaging?) even happening. Is the "heat soak" problem solenoid related or is it the starter itself? I'm not familiar with Suzukis at all yet - would it help to protect the starter from exhaust heat using a simple shield?

My first thought was the safety switch (clutch pedal pushed in at starting) was not working and next time,\\ I'll push the pedal all the way down to the floor a few times to see if that solves the problem.
The next step is to remove the starter and repair/replace the solenoid? (NO !) are you rich, a $100 starter then $100 battery, do not guess.


Cheers, Pavel14

i have a no crank page that covers all this. (done 10 years ago, wow)

http://www.fixkick.com/nocrank.html


the starter can be hot wired,, (jumper wire ) as seen in the link above. see ST pin, jump. above.
this proves the clutch switch is ok
or at the clutch switch, remove its plug and put jumper wire on the 2 pins, use say a small sized paper clip in the 2 pins (harness side ) and this switch is now bypassed to test.

http://www.fixkick.com
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08-17-2018, 04:07 AM (This post was last modified: 08-17-2018 04:08 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #6
RE: No turn over when engine is warm.
the 2 wiggle tests
are key wiggle in ST mode.
and wiggle clutch.
when folks say car fails hot , it is,
or just happens after driving and driver is not. (motion caused failure , vibration etc) not heat, so keep and open mind.
when checking the battery voltage, do so at lugs and posts. this finds corroded lugs or some that are loose.

that battery can do 500 amps
the starter on this tiny engine only uses 100 amps
so the battery is 5 times, what is needed,
this tells you lots. when it fails, what is that?, it is a super hard failure and easy to find.

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08-17-2018, 06:09 AM
Post: #7
RE: No turn over when engine is warm.
OK Fixkick - that's great information!

It'll be some weeks before I can get back to the vehicle, but i will take my voltmeter and test leads. Will follow your instructions, clean contacts and report back. Thank you for your advice. Pavel14.
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