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Bad COP?
04-17-2018, 02:33 PM
Post: #1
Bad COP?
Greetings
96 JLX sport started running like hell the other day. Stopped at a shop and mechanic determined the third plug back from front was not firing. I did not have time for him to further diagnose. I ordered a new cop from amazon and failed to fix problem. Sent cop back and ordered another one from Rock auto. I've had good luck with Rock and hoped to get a better quality cop from them. I installed the cop and drove into town. Same problem, running bad, flashing check engine light, poor acceleration etc.
Now I'm thinking maybe it's a bad connector or wire. I need help figuring out how to go through proper steps to diagnose problem.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
THANKS!
PS I put in a new set of ngk plugs (old plugs did not look too bad)
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04-17-2018, 09:52 PM (This post was last modified: 04-17-2018 09:56 PM by fixkick.)
Post: #2
RE: Bad COP?
1996 G16 has no cop, so I guess you forgot to say its a J18 DUAL CAM engine (DOHC) the 1996 suzuki SPORT has J18 engine and different wide body frame.
1996 has no coil over plugs, COP spark coils. it is a distributor.
you forgot to scan the PCM, with any OBD2 scan tool made, to see that reason for the flashing CEL. (usa laws, make that flash) the flashing means CAT is overheating from gross misfiring. DTC p0303 means #3 gross misfire)
1999 and newer G16s had cops too:
what he did wrong. J18
1: checked spark using test spark plug? if failed , the fire wall ignitor can be bad. (do not get the wrong COP. newer cops do not work on 1996 cars.
2:sparks checks compression next.
3: compression ok, checks injector.

off my hard to find parts page, these words
Variances in COP's:
The Suzuki 96-98 SPORT 1.8L 33410-77E11 (96-97 with external ignitior) and 33410-77E21 in 98' with internal ignitor. (apples and oranges different)
The 99 Vitara's , most use 33410-77E21 in USA. ( and the Vitara runs .039" gap and not .028" gap, as the SPORT uses, but the coils are a different class)

to test spark we use test spark plug. with COP pulled but the harness connector still attached,

we insert a good spark plug into that boot.
we ground the spark plug , and crank it and spark fails.
id say the Ignitor is next. (mounted to the fire wall)

a new spark plug is $2.50 , they can short and look ok. why a skip 2buck fix?
the fix or diagnosis is from right to left below.

PCM >>>>Ignitor >>>>>COP3>>>>>spark plug.

see that Ignitor there? it is there. on the fire wall. until 1998 sport , they moved the ignitor transistors inside the COP.


[Image: 96-97Cops.jpg]

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04-17-2018, 10:47 PM
Post: #3
RE: Bad COP?
here is my old J18 sport page
http://fixkick.com/one-point-eight.html

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04-18-2018, 07:37 AM
Post: #4
RE: Bad COP?
Thanks fixkick
Sorry I wasn't more specific. I thought all JLX sport sidekicks were japanese 1.8 liter. Anyhow, thanks for all the great info. This morning I took old COP and put it on #1 plug and put #1 COP on #3 plug. Started engine and everthing was smooth as glass. Choke worked perfect and warmed to 1000 RPM idle. Drove around the ranch a bit and all was fine. It appears all plugs were firing perfectly. I live 9 miles from the highway where I can open it up. It seems the problem starts at highway speeds, will try to take a highway cruise tomorrow and see what happens.
I hooked up my code reader and got p0400 and p0303. That p0303 sounds real bad (#3 gross misfire) I think p0400 is always there because previous owner removed cat converter and ran straight pipe.(lesson learned: always look under a vehicle you may buy) I didn't (BAD MOVE).
What is the most common cause of p0303 and what kind of fix will it need?
Thanks for all the help!!
sidekicker
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04-18-2018, 08:02 AM
Post: #5
RE: Bad COP?
yes the official sports are all 1.8L
but many dealers sold sidekick sports, they put a label on the car, sport, and was dealer upgrades.
just for fun.
iv no idea what your shop did, the actual tests. did he connect up a new spark plug to #3 and not put the plug in the engine, and see that #3 has dead spark
or did the shop, use spark scope and say spark dead, or plasma weak firing,? or used mag pickup to the COP, and saw #3 was dead, what tests he did matter, big time.

303 means weak or no combustion to #3, for dead, spark , dead fuel injunctions, or very poor compression.#3
400 is just dead EGR valve.


there is no common cause on cars this old. only what is possible. throw dice and bingo that. fate, or luck or entropy.

do you know how to test spark using a COP
here is what Id do, #3, , nine miles from roads. fast.
id buy #3 spark plug and gap it right.

a new cop boot, those die first. the cop , then
what a person does depends on tools. if you have all the tools check compression on #3, 180 PSI, warm , or more. tested cranked, wide open throttle. (or even 1/2 throttle but not zero throttle)
if that passes


but now it is intermittent.
this may mean compression is OK on #3, it hints at that.
why not new set of spark plugs,?
then boots.
then cops
then ignitor.
the you find the injector is bad.
we have tests for each part, one can test or guess, , the injector tests show the injector works but needs fuel pressure gauge, to do the leak down test and the injector firing test.

it really is 3 things (IN NO ORDER)
1: SPARK
2: INJECTION
3: COMPRESSION AT SPEC. IF BAD THE other 2 ARE USELESS.


the ECU only know this.
it FIRED cylinder #3, and the piston was slow to move (slow or dead acceleration of the piston#3, or as a motor head my might say no BOOM #3) #3 when PFFFTT...

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04-18-2018, 08:03 AM
Post: #6
RE: Bad COP?
pretend 4 engines under that hood,
and only share the air flow.(MAF flow is common as is O2 sensor) 4 engines, sharing flywheel.

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04-18-2018, 08:05 AM
Post: #7
RE: Bad COP?
the new cop had a new boot, so
scratch cop , scratch BOOT off list.
if installed from ROCk.

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04-18-2018, 09:24 AM
Post: #8
RE: Bad COP?
Thanks again fixkick,
It sounds like I should go have mechanic do compression test. I'm very limited on mechanic tools and abilities. Alot of stuff I have done was thanks to you and your website. Although compression and injectors are things I have no experience with and no test equipment.
Right now I have all the old cops on engine. I took new off #3 and put old #1 on #3 and old #3 and put on #1. All 4 old ones seem to be working fine on starting and warm up and cruising around ranch. Do not think I needed to buy new cop after all. Although I will definitely replace all the boots, they are getting old and stiff.
Will let you know what mechanic finds on #3 cylinder. Really appreciate all your help!
sidekicker
PS All the mechanic did originally was pull all the connectors off one at a time with engine running to determine #3 was not firing.
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04-19-2018, 08:49 AM
Post: #9
RE: Bad COP?
Hello
Took the sport for cruise. Drove to a town about 40 miles away. Ran real well on way over, but, acted up again on way back. Seems to be a problem that appears when the engine is working fairly hard. Oh well, taking it into shop tomorrow, let y'all know what happens. Thanks
sidekicker
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04-20-2018, 03:13 PM
Post: #10
RE: Bad COP?
I drove sport over to repair shop today. It ran smooth going into town. Turned it off when I got to the repair shop. When I started it back up for mechanic it was idling rough. He diagnosed it was a bad injector on #3 cylinder. We ordered a new injector from rock. When I drove back home, sport was running good again. Question: I put some lucas injector cleaner in gas a couple of days ago, is it possible that the lucas cleaner may have cleared the injector or is that not possible? Just wondering if maybe the injector was just clogged or dirty. Any how I'll keep driving it a little bit and see how it does while were waiting for parts.
Thanks
sidekicker
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