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Engine Stalls
03-29-2018, 11:08 PM
Post: #21
RE: Engine Stalls
here is spark on this car, it has COPS (means coil over plugs, no distributor, or DIS, DistributorLESS Igition System)
right? you have no distributor, correct>?
as you can see ground G103 is critical as are all ECU grounds and all Sensor grounds, and actuators related.

[Image: 3_29_03_18_8_06_14.jpeg]

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03-29-2018, 11:17 PM
Post: #22
RE: Engine Stalls
The ECu uses G102, ground in the dash to run ECU.
the shop manual covers all this, all wiring, and how to find grounds and all power feeds.

IF one cop fails, note that you just lost 2 cylinders dead.
this would make engine shake hard and stall.

The scan tool will show most errors, but not fuel lost. (no DTC for fuel line pressure low or lost) on this car. but loss of pressure never causes RPM tacho to drop instantanly, only slowly with actual real RPM falling, 1:1 relationship, if the tach falls like rack on say 4th gear going fast the , ECU did that. for a fact and means , you lost key sensors or power.

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03-29-2018, 11:27 PM (This post was last modified: 03-29-2018 11:28 PM by fixkick.)
Post: #23
RE: Engine Stalls
working with no scan tool, makes the job very hard, due to lots of things that can fail. (spark?)
power lost
grounds bad, many there are.
cop fails.
eCU goes dead, lack of power or bad ECU
Main relay bad.
bad fuses, cracks inside them.
bad CKP or CMP
bad wiring to all the above.

I do know J18/j20 engine options, loves to fail CMP sensors but not sure on this car. and go heat sensitive ,hot fails only,
that is all I have on stalls.

Id have to drive it to see
when CEL comes on stalled, at what rpm or at all.
id have to see the tacho die. when , exactly , and what speed, and if engine and trans in 4th gear, and I hear the engine screaming fast and falling RPM with my ears.
know the rpm is still fast but of the tacho goes to 0 and engine is still spinning fast in 4th gear (stick shift) then I know the ECU is NOT HAPPY, for a fact.
but Id have to drive it and witness those key facts.
id be driving the scan tool logging but that is me. (lazy)


if I had to guess, no tools? no tests, etc.
sounds like bad CMP on back of head, rear cam , is a housing with CMP attached.

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03-30-2018, 02:22 AM
Post: #24
RE: Engine Stalls
(03-29-2018 11:27 PM)fixkick Wrote:  working with no scan tool, makes the job very hard, due to lots of things that can fail. (spark?)
power lost
grounds bad, many there are.
cop fails.
eCU goes dead, lack of power or bad ECU
Main relay bad.
bad fuses, cracks inside them.
bad CKP or CMP
bad wiring to all the above.

I do know J18/j20 engine options, loves to fail CMP sensors but not sure on this car. and go heat sensitive ,hot fails only,
that is all I have on stalls.

Id have to drive it to see
when CEL comes on stalled, at what rpm or at all.
id have to see the tacho die. when , exactly , and what speed, and if engine and trans in 4th gear, and I hear the engine screaming fast and falling RPM with my ears.
know the rpm is still fast but of the tacho goes to 0 and engine is still spinning fast in 4th gear (stick shift) then I know the ECU is NOT HAPPY, for a fact.
but Id have to drive it and witness those key facts.
id be driving the scan tool logging but that is me. (lazy)


if I had to guess, no tools? no tests, etc.
sounds like bad CMP on back of head, rear cam , is a housing with CMP attached.

Will a good scan tool tell me if the Cam Shaft Position sensor is the issue? Can you recommend a good value scan tool? I am looking at Bosch's at O'Reilly's for $100 or $150. Wal-Mart has one for $40 that includes a real time date tracker. I am retired. Trying to save some money. But the scan tool looks like a good investment ongoing (particularly owning older vehicles, and I love the Tracker). The $150 Bosch OBD 1150 looks extremely capable, but more $$'s.

If I had to guess, I would say its the Cam shaft position sensor. After I cleaned the ground and cable connections, the stalls became less frequent and less intense and deferred the final stall and dead stick landing.

The car ignition system is COP - there is no distributor (took me comparing the 98 and 99's part list at Rock Auto to realize that - LOL).

Thanks again for the huge help.

Joe Tracker
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03-30-2018, 03:49 AM
Post: #25
RE: Engine Stalls
All scantools ever made work here,
your car is 1999 and all tools work from 1996 to now, if you had 2004+ car or newer old tools can fail, due to the lack of "CAN" BUS support, then
but your car any tool works even a $15 USB adapter works with any old laptops (USB is best)
A new tool supports them all 1996 to NOW, and in the future.\


keep in mind we are not talking near worthless code readers, that spit out a P0300 code and leave you high and dry, no it's a scan tool. here.
there are vast type of tools, hand held (most expensive but super most easy to use,)
then there is the USB dongle and and APP for smart phones, or laptops apps.
what is this? "a real time date tracker. ?: (data?)

think of the tool this way, the first time a $100 tool saves you $100 of shop labor the tool is now a true investment, a money maker, every time you find something and cure it.
even a loose gas cap sets a code. (some families just all kick into the kitty and buy one tool for the whole family)
your car is intermittent. so driving to autozone , it's not failing so they cant see the error.

yes its good to have cops. and no distributor, for sure.
but now if those COP boots are 19years old the ones that are direct to plug, no boot lasts 19 years on any COP (you can buy boots only !) and sure the 2 spark wires too.
but the boot shorts on #1 and P0301 code sets ! telling you #1 is gross misfiring. (1 and 4 are shared coils so if one spark misfires, both fail, do to a series electr circuit.)

the tool I like is Innova 3160, but only if on sale. it's a hand held.
The USB dongle is best here.
I have laptop and can log data all day long if need be.....very powerful... tool...


here is my Innova

http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/Authority/A_F....html#Jeep


here is the dongle. USB tools
the $44 dongle here is good. plenty good and USB robust, unlike bluetooth, I have this and the wifi version
http://www.palmerperformance.com/hardware/index.php


the packages are here,
http://www.palmerperformance.com/store/i...p?cPath=24

I have this, and is superpowerful but one needs laptop , and old owns work great.
http://www.palmerperformance.com/store/p...ucts_id=57


i have not used the android one, but I bet its very goodl
http://www.palmerperformance.com/store/p...ucts_id=57


it is always a very personal choice, for sure.
datalogging is top of my list.
drive and log. data.
I must be able to log DTC errors live or any sensor of my choosing.
The CMP one cant log each click, we only see P0340, or 355 errors, to tell me its dead. or misfiring or intermittant,
all other sensors analog can be logged, MAF, MAP, ECT, IAT, O2 front , O2 Rear, RPM, speed, load, all data can be logged.

http://www.fixkick.com
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Quote this message in a reply
03-30-2018, 05:25 AM
Post: #26
RE: Engine Stalls
(03-30-2018 03:49 AM)fixkick Wrote:  All scantools ever made work here,
your car is 1999 and all tools work from 1996 to now, if you had 2004+ car or newer old tools can fail, due to the lack of "CAN" BUS support, then
but your car any tool works even a $15 USB adapter works with any old laptops (USB is best)
A new tool supports them all 1996 to NOW, and in the future.\


keep in mind we are not talking near worthless code readers, that spit out a P0300 code and leave you high and dry, no it's a scan tool. here.
there are vast type of tools, hand held (most expensive but super most easy to use,)
then there is the USB dongle and and APP for smart phones, or laptops apps.
what is this? "a real time date tracker. ?: (data?)

think of the tool this way, the first time a $100 tool saves you $100 of shop labor the tool is now a true investment, a money maker, every time you find something and cure it.
even a loose gas cap sets a code. (some families just all kick into the kitty and buy one tool for the whole family)
your car is intermittent. so driving to autozone , it's not failing so they cant see the error.

yes its good to have cops. and no distributor, for sure.
but now if those COP boots are 19years old the ones that are direct to plug, no boot lasts 19 years on any COP (you can buy boots only !) and sure the 2 spark wires too.
but the boot shorts on #1 and P0301 code sets ! telling you #1 is gross misfiring. (1 and 4 are shared coils so if one spark misfires, both fail, do to a series electr circuit.)

the tool I like is Innova 3160, but only if on sale. it's a hand held.
The USB dongle is best here.
I have laptop and can log data all day long if need be.....very powerful... tool...


here is my Innova

http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/Authority/A_F....html#Jeep


here is the dongle. USB tools
the $44 dongle here is good. plenty good and USB robust, unlike bluetooth, I have this and the wifi version
http://www.palmerperformance.com/hardware/index.php


the packages are here,
http://www.palmerperformance.com/store/i...p?cPath=24

I have this, and is superpowerful but one needs laptop , and old owns work great.
http://www.palmerperformance.com/store/p...ucts_id=57


i have not used the android one, but I bet its very goodl
http://www.palmerperformance.com/store/p...ucts_id=57


it is always a very personal choice, for sure.
datalogging is top of my list.
drive and log. data.
I must be able to log DTC errors live or any sensor of my choosing.
The CMP one cant log each click, we only see P0340, or 355 errors, to tell me its dead. or misfiring or intermittant,
all other sensors analog can be logged, MAF, MAP, ECT, IAT, O2 front , O2 Rear, RPM, speed, load, all data can be logged.

Extremely helpful!

Is the Inova 3160 you have capable of data logging? I noticed it has a record and playback feature.

Will the 3160 eliminate any need for a laptop for data logging? The only phones and laptops I have are Apples. I do not have any PC's.

Thanks

Joe Tracker
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
03-30-2018, 02:53 PM
Post: #27
RE: Engine Stalls
(03-30-2018 05:25 AM)Joe Tracker Wrote:  
(03-30-2018 03:49 AM)fixkick Wrote:  All scantools ever made work here,
your car is 1999 and all tools work from 1996 to now, if you had 2004+ car or newer old tools can fail, due to the lack of "CAN" BUS support, then
but your car any tool works even a $15 USB adapter works with any old laptops (USB is best)
A new tool supports them all 1996 to NOW, and in the future.\


keep in mind we are not talking near worthless code readers, that spit out a P0300 code and leave you high and dry, no it's a scan tool. here.
there are vast type of tools, hand held (most expensive but super most easy to use,)
then there is the USB dongle and and APP for smart phones, or laptops apps.
what is this? "a real time date tracker. ?: (data?)

think of the tool this way, the first time a $100 tool saves you $100 of shop labor the tool is now a true investment, a money maker, every time you find something and cure it.
even a loose gas cap sets a code. (some families just all kick into the kitty and buy one tool for the whole family)
your car is intermittent. so driving to autozone , it's not failing so they cant see the error.

yes its good to have cops. and no distributor, for sure.
but now if those COP boots are 19years old the ones that are direct to plug, no boot lasts 19 years on any COP (you can buy boots only !) and sure the 2 spark wires too.
but the boot shorts on #1 and P0301 code sets ! telling you #1 is gross misfiring. (1 and 4 are shared coils so if one spark misfires, both fail, do to a series electr circuit.)

the tool I like is Innova 3160, but only if on sale. it's a hand held.
The USB dongle is best here.
I have laptop and can log data all day long if need be.....very powerful... tool...


here is my Innova

http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/Authority/A_F....html#Jeep


here is the dongle. USB tools
the $44 dongle here is good. plenty good and USB robust, unlike bluetooth, I have this and the wifi version
http://www.palmerperformance.com/hardware/index.php


the packages are here,
http://www.palmerperformance.com/store/i...p?cPath=24

I have this, and is superpowerful but one needs laptop , and old owns work great.
http://www.palmerperformance.com/store/p...ucts_id=57


i have not used the android one, but I bet its very goodl
http://www.palmerperformance.com/store/p...ucts_id=57


it is always a very personal choice, for sure.
datalogging is top of my list.
drive and log. data.
I must be able to log DTC errors live or any sensor of my choosing.
The CMP one cant log each click, we only see P0340, or 355 errors, to tell me its dead. or misfiring or intermittant,
all other sensors analog can be logged, MAF, MAP, ECT, IAT, O2 front , O2 Rear, RPM, speed, load, all data can be logged.

Extremely helpful!

Is the Inova 3160 you have capable of data logging? I noticed it has a record and playback feature.

Will the 3160 eliminate any need for a laptop for data logging? The only phones and laptops I have are Apples. I do not have any PC's.

Thanks

Joe Tracker

I bought the Inova 3160 like yours. I am learning how to use it. Here is a live data recording of a series of stalls. Does this help?

Fr Veh Eng Fuel. Calc Spark O2S STFT. O2S
Speed RPM MAF TPS Sys Load MAP Adv STFT B1 LTFT B1 B1S1 B1S1 B1S2 STFT B1S2
62 32 2914 1.65 16.1 CL 27.10% 10 40.00% 8.00% -4.70% 0.745 8.00% 0.725 99.20%
63 32 2902 1.86 17.6 CL 22.70% 10 39.50% 3.90% -4.70% 0.705 -8.00% 0.73 99.20%
64 35 3074 2.69 21.2 CL 34.90% 18 34.00% 1.60% -3.10% 0.695 0.00% 0.73 99.20%
65 36 3211 2.54 20.4 CL 38.00% 15 38.00% -1.60% -3.10% 0.58 4.70% 0.73 99.20%
66 37 3385 2.24 20.4 CL 62.70% 26 34.00% 3.90% -3.90% 785 -8.00% 0.72 99.20%
67 37 3306 1.65 14.1 CL 49.80% 12 39.50% -0.8% -3.10% 0.085 3.10% 0.635 99.20%
68 36 3188 1.87 16.5 CL 23.90% 11 39.50% 1.60% -4.70% 0.665 -2.30% 0.705 99.20%
69 39 3404 0.45 0 CL 27.80% 4 41.50% -5.50% -4.70% 0 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
70 36 3241 0.41 0 CL 9.40% 5 41.00% 4.70% -4.70% 0 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
71 31 2792 0.33 0 OL-Drive 5.10% 4 39.50% 0.00% -4.70% 0.005 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
72 25 2305 0.34 0 CL 11.40% 5 38.50% 5.50% -3.90% 0.005 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
73 10 932 0.36 11.8 OL-Drive 10.20% 8 8.00% 0.00% 1.60% 0.055 2.30% 0.065 99.20%
74 9 2280 0.56 3.9 CL 17.30% 5 43.50% -2.30% -3.90% 0.09 0.00% 0.055 99.20%
75 8 1962 2.25 20.4 CL 25.10% 12 29.50% 5.50% -3.10% 0.59 1.60% 0.085 99.20%
76 14 0 0 38 CL 50.60% 26 5.00% 0.8% -3.90% 0.075 6.30% 0.11 99.20%
77 10 0 3.8 41.2 OL 63.10% 27 23.50% 3.90% -3.90% 0.78 -2.30% 0.085 99.20%
78 10 0 3.96 42.4 CL 100.00% 27 5.00% 3.10% -3.90% 0.73 3.10% 0.18 99.20%
79 21 3202 3.72 29.4 CL 16.10% 11 29.50% 4.70% -4.70% 0.115 5.50% 0.005 99.20%
80 21 757 4.57 42.4 CL 33.70% 29 11.50% 9.40% -3.90% 0.785 2.30% 0.82 99.20%
81 28 239 0 47.8 OL-Drive 58.80% 28 5.00% 0.00% -3.90% 0.085 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
82 19 777 0 49.8 OL 100.00% 29 5.00% 0.00% -3.90% 0.075 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
83 11 1294 3.3 53.3 OL 82.70% 29 4.50% 0.00% -3.90% 0.73 1.60% 0.145 99.20%
84 20 2675 0 44.7 OL-Drive 81.20% 27 11.50% 0.00% -3.90% 0.14 -2.30% 0.005 99.20%
85 23 3048 5.72 34.9 CL 79.20% 28 18.50% 0.8% -3.90% 0.805 -3.10% 0.005 99.20%
86 30 2763 1.02 10.6 CL 20.00% 10 41.00% 5.50% -4.70% 0.58 -4.70% 0.045 99.20%
87 31 0 3.52 38.4 OL 100.00% 18 5.00% 0.00% -3.90% 0.01 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
88 30 2810 0 27.5 OL 100.00% 23 26.50% -1.60% -3.90% 0.05 2.30% 0.005 99.20%
89 28 0 0 33.3 OL 100.00% 27 5.00% 0.00% -3.90% 0.045 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
90 24 0 0 36.1 OL 100.00% 30 5.00% 0.00% -3.90% 0.06 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
91 20 0 2.71 39.6 OL 38.00% 30 -4.00% 0.00% -3.90% 0.075 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
92 16 1623 0.68 38 OL 100.00% 29 5.00% 0.73 -2.30% 0.765 99.20%
93 22 2065 3.8 34.9 CL 80.00% 29 9.00% 1.60% -3.90% 0.76 0.00% 0.845 99.20%
94 32 2949 1.98 17.6 CL 54.90% 17 36.50% -2.30% -3.10% 0.595 -3.10% 0.69 99.20%
95 34 3039 1.56 15.3 CL 23.50% 12 39.50% 2.30% -4.70% 0.7 -1.60% 0.56 99.20%
96 32 3004 1.54 14.9 CL 30.60% 10 39.50% 0.00% -4.70% 0.375 3.10% 0.565 99.20%
97 32 2989 0.67 29.4 CL 21.20% 12 5.00% 1.60% -4.70% 0.005 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
98 34 3089 3.22 21.6 CL 78.00% 26 24.00% 0.80% -3.90% 0.53 1.60% 0.04 99.20%
99 36 3237 2.07 18.4 CL 27.50% 12 39.00% 0.80% -4.70% 0.72 0.00% 0.045 99.20%
100 34 2956 0.32 0 CL 16.90% 4 39.50% -3.10% -4.70% 0.005 0.00% 0.005 99.20%

Thanks for your help.

Joe Tracker
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Quote this message in a reply
03-31-2018, 11:04 AM
Post: #28
RE: Engine Stalls
(03-30-2018 02:53 PM)Joe Tracker Wrote:  
(03-30-2018 05:25 AM)Joe Tracker Wrote:  
(03-30-2018 03:49 AM)fixkick Wrote:  All scantools ever made work here,
your car is 1999 and all tools work from 1996 to now, if you had 2004+ car or newer old tools can fail, due to the lack of "CAN" BUS support, then
but your car any tool works even a $15 USB adapter works with any old laptops (USB is best)
A new tool supports them all 1996 to NOW, and in the future.\


keep in mind we are not talking near worthless code readers, that spit out a P0300 code and leave you high and dry, no it's a scan tool. here.
there are vast type of tools, hand held (most expensive but super most easy to use,)
then there is the USB dongle and and APP for smart phones, or laptops apps.
what is this? "a real time date tracker. ?: (data?)

think of the tool this way, the first time a $100 tool saves you $100 of shop labor the tool is now a true investment, a money maker, every time you find something and cure it.
even a loose gas cap sets a code. (some families just all kick into the kitty and buy one tool for the whole family)
your car is intermittent. so driving to autozone , it's not failing so they cant see the error.

yes its good to have cops. and no distributor, for sure.
but now if those COP boots are 19years old the ones that are direct to plug, no boot lasts 19 years on any COP (you can buy boots only !) and sure the 2 spark wires too.
but the boot shorts on #1 and P0301 code sets ! telling you #1 is gross misfiring. (1 and 4 are shared coils so if one spark misfires, both fail, do to a series electr circuit.)

the tool I like is Innova 3160, but only if on sale. it's a hand held.
The USB dongle is best here.
I have laptop and can log data all day long if need be.....very powerful... tool...


here is my Innova

http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/Authority/A_F....html#Jeep


here is the dongle. USB tools
the $44 dongle here is good. plenty good and USB robust, unlike bluetooth, I have this and the wifi version
http://www.palmerperformance.com/hardware/index.php


the packages are here,
http://www.palmerperformance.com/store/i...p?cPath=24

I have this, and is superpowerful but one needs laptop , and old owns work great.
http://www.palmerperformance.com/store/p...ucts_id=57


i have not used the android one, but I bet its very goodl
http://www.palmerperformance.com/store/p...ucts_id=57


it is always a very personal choice, for sure.
datalogging is top of my list.
drive and log. data.
I must be able to log DTC errors live or any sensor of my choosing.
The CMP one cant log each click, we only see P0340, or 355 errors, to tell me its dead. or misfiring or intermittant,
all other sensors analog can be logged, MAF, MAP, ECT, IAT, O2 front , O2 Rear, RPM, speed, load, all data can be logged.

Extremely helpful!

Is the Inova 3160 you have capable of data logging? I noticed it has a record and playback feature.

Will the 3160 eliminate any need for a laptop for data logging? The only phones and laptops I have are Apples. I do not have any PC's.

Thanks

Joe Tracker

I bought the Inova 3160 like yours. I am learning how to use it. Here is a live data recording of a series of stalls. Does this help?

Fr Veh Eng Fuel. Calc Spark O2S STFT. O2S
Speed RPM MAF TPS Sys Load MAP Adv STFT B1 LTFT B1 B1S1 B1S1 B1S2 STFT B1S2
62 32 2914 1.65 16.1 CL 27.10% 10 40.00% 8.00% -4.70% 0.745 8.00% 0.725 99.20%
63 32 2902 1.86 17.6 CL 22.70% 10 39.50% 3.90% -4.70% 0.705 -8.00% 0.73 99.20%
64 35 3074 2.69 21.2 CL 34.90% 18 34.00% 1.60% -3.10% 0.695 0.00% 0.73 99.20%
65 36 3211 2.54 20.4 CL 38.00% 15 38.00% -1.60% -3.10% 0.58 4.70% 0.73 99.20%
66 37 3385 2.24 20.4 CL 62.70% 26 34.00% 3.90% -3.90% 785 -8.00% 0.72 99.20%
67 37 3306 1.65 14.1 CL 49.80% 12 39.50% -0.8% -3.10% 0.085 3.10% 0.635 99.20%
68 36 3188 1.87 16.5 CL 23.90% 11 39.50% 1.60% -4.70% 0.665 -2.30% 0.705 99.20%
69 39 3404 0.45 0 CL 27.80% 4 41.50% -5.50% -4.70% 0 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
70 36 3241 0.41 0 CL 9.40% 5 41.00% 4.70% -4.70% 0 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
71 31 2792 0.33 0 OL-Drive 5.10% 4 39.50% 0.00% -4.70% 0.005 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
72 25 2305 0.34 0 CL 11.40% 5 38.50% 5.50% -3.90% 0.005 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
73 10 932 0.36 11.8 OL-Drive 10.20% 8 8.00% 0.00% 1.60% 0.055 2.30% 0.065 99.20%
74 9 2280 0.56 3.9 CL 17.30% 5 43.50% -2.30% -3.90% 0.09 0.00% 0.055 99.20%
75 8 1962 2.25 20.4 CL 25.10% 12 29.50% 5.50% -3.10% 0.59 1.60% 0.085 99.20%
76 14 0 0 38 CL 50.60% 26 5.00% 0.8% -3.90% 0.075 6.30% 0.11 99.20%
77 10 0 3.8 41.2 OL 63.10% 27 23.50% 3.90% -3.90% 0.78 -2.30% 0.085 99.20%
78 10 0 3.96 42.4 CL 100.00% 27 5.00% 3.10% -3.90% 0.73 3.10% 0.18 99.20%
79 21 3202 3.72 29.4 CL 16.10% 11 29.50% 4.70% -4.70% 0.115 5.50% 0.005 99.20%
80 21 757 4.57 42.4 CL 33.70% 29 11.50% 9.40% -3.90% 0.785 2.30% 0.82 99.20%
81 28 239 0 47.8 OL-Drive 58.80% 28 5.00% 0.00% -3.90% 0.085 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
82 19 777 0 49.8 OL 100.00% 29 5.00% 0.00% -3.90% 0.075 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
83 11 1294 3.3 53.3 OL 82.70% 29 4.50% 0.00% -3.90% 0.73 1.60% 0.145 99.20%
84 20 2675 0 44.7 OL-Drive 81.20% 27 11.50% 0.00% -3.90% 0.14 -2.30% 0.005 99.20%
85 23 3048 5.72 34.9 CL 79.20% 28 18.50% 0.8% -3.90% 0.805 -3.10% 0.005 99.20%
86 30 2763 1.02 10.6 CL 20.00% 10 41.00% 5.50% -4.70% 0.58 -4.70% 0.045 99.20%
87 31 0 3.52 38.4 OL 100.00% 18 5.00% 0.00% -3.90% 0.01 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
88 30 2810 0 27.5 OL 100.00% 23 26.50% -1.60% -3.90% 0.05 2.30% 0.005 99.20%
89 28 0 0 33.3 OL 100.00% 27 5.00% 0.00% -3.90% 0.045 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
90 24 0 0 36.1 OL 100.00% 30 5.00% 0.00% -3.90% 0.06 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
91 20 0 2.71 39.6 OL 38.00% 30 -4.00% 0.00% -3.90% 0.075 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
92 16 1623 0.68 38 OL 100.00% 29 5.00% 0.73 -2.30% 0.765 99.20%
93 22 2065 3.8 34.9 CL 80.00% 29 9.00% 1.60% -3.90% 0.76 0.00% 0.845 99.20%
94 32 2949 1.98 17.6 CL 54.90% 17 36.50% -2.30% -3.10% 0.595 -3.10% 0.69 99.20%
95 34 3039 1.56 15.3 CL 23.50% 12 39.50% 2.30% -4.70% 0.7 -1.60% 0.56 99.20%
96 32 3004 1.54 14.9 CL 30.60% 10 39.50% 0.00% -4.70% 0.375 3.10% 0.565 99.20%
97 32 2989 0.67 29.4 CL 21.20% 12 5.00% 1.60% -4.70% 0.005 0.00% 0.005 99.20%
98 34 3089 3.22 21.6 CL 78.00% 26 24.00% 0.80% -3.90% 0.53 1.60% 0.04 99.20%
99 36 3237 2.07 18.4 CL 27.50% 12 39.00% 0.80% -4.70% 0.72 0.00% 0.045 99.20%
100 34 2956 0.32 0 CL 16.90% 4 39.50% -3.10% -4.70% 0.005 0.00% 0.005 99.20%

Thanks for your help.

Joe Tracker

Can someone provide me with the acceptable PID value ranges for the 1.6 liter 1999 Vitara/Tracker engine (actually a 1999 Chevy Tracker with "6" as the 8th numeral of the VIN)? I can read the data using my Innova data logger but I do not have a key to explain the meaning of text results (such as "OL" for the Fuel System 1 PID) or the acceptable range of values for numeric data.

Thanks,

Joe Tracker
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04-01-2018, 12:01 AM
Post: #29
RE: Engine Stalls
all hot engine data right>?
why does TPS go to 0 all the time, are you lifting foot off throttle at frame 69 to 72?
OL means open loop,
CL means closed loop, means engine hot, and 02 sensor is swinging and EFI is controlling fuel rates, exactly via O2 readings.
nice set of data.

so when engine stalls, RPM goes to 0 , slow or fast, fast to 0 rpm like dropping rock to the ground is fast, slow means fuel lost. if spark is lost the RPM falls like rock.
NO DTC errors, no P03xx errors, no pending errors, at the stall point push the pending button, key still on, CEL glowing , RPM 0, push the pending button !
you will get this (pending), NO COMS, (means ECU lost power) a DTC error, or no errors, ,no errors implies lost fuel pressure (zero PSI)
The ECU can not see fuel pressures at all , so that means no DTC for that,(low pressure may in fact set a gross DTC error, for longterm fuel trim, )


lets do 2 lines. only and do not look at S2 (s2 = rear cat 02 sensors 2, sensor 2 and is useless data)
only S1 matters for fueling, front sensor.



Speed RPM MAF TPS Sys Load MAP Adv STFT B1 LTFT B1 B1S1 B1S1( B1S2 STFT B1S2)
75 us frame (scanned frame # sequential)
8 is MPH.
1962 is RPM
2.25 is MAF air flow, gram/minute>? (we must scan it only and fast to see if it died, on the fly, fast scanned , at stall) timing here (testing) is key.
20.4 is TPS throttle angle 20% ;right foot throttle.
CL= closed loop, means steady cruise, right foot steady, normal this is, (CL goes Open OL, at accelerate or deceleration)
25.10% load (engine) this is a calc. based on RPM and MAF.
12: is map sensor, for EGR only, we dont care here.
29.5% is really 29.5 degrees spark advance, very normal all above are.
5.5% is sTFT, ignore this its too fast for humans to see. short term fuel trim.
-3.10 is LTFT and is super normal, longterm fuel trim, it means the fuel is 3% rich(normal for maf errors normal) and the loop removes 3% error, so is minus sign, prefect readings.
0.59 is the O2 voltage, (center of range good, 0v bad, 1v bad) 0.45 is perfect. mix but it changes fast and this is the average .59. and good.
the rest to the right is only for CAT tests. ignore that.


75 8 1962 2.25 20.4 CL 25.10% 12 29.50% 5.50% -3.10% 0.59 1.60% (0.085 99.20%)
The scan toll is slow, as is normal, it can got faster that the PCM can process (it is old and slow) normal
here at frame 76 we see speed rises to 14mph from 8, kinda odd that, are you going down hill? engine stalls and it speeds up? is the clutch pushed to floor now?
76 14 0 0 38 CL 50.60% 26 5.00% 0.8% -3.90% 0.075 6.30%(0.11 99.20%)
here the rpm is 0 and so is MAF
we missed all data from 2.25 maf to zero maf. zero air flow.

what I do is log only mAF, and drive and when it stalls make sure the MAF reads and matches the RPM drop
if the maf falls like a rock, to 0
and rpm (leave transmission in gear at stall and clutch left alone) let the forward momentum of the car, keep RPM higher,
the trans box will spin the engine for your , and keep your foot on the throttle, say 1/2 way, at the stall.
then see if the maf read right,
the MAF works at all times, it measure air flow, even if spark ended, and engine spins, and sucks air like mad, foot on throttle using cars momentum. (5sp car makes this so easy)
if the MAF tracks RPM , map scanned only, then the maf is ok;
if them falls to 0 with RPM way above zero the maf is bad.
if the maf is ok, the fuel pressure is the cause.
or total loss of spark,, please use pendings to see if spark is failing,
keep in mind pendings work, all the time, but DTC will not store , in many cases until 3 driving cycles. so always look in pendings
if if you see any DTC there, use freeze frame, freeze frame shows all sensor data, at the DTC error shown. a key set of facts , on any last occured DTC.

cheers.!

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04-01-2018, 07:26 AM
Post: #30
RE: Engine Stalls
Yes - this is all hot engine data.

It look's like spark loss - the RPM drop is always like a rock - never slow. And some stalls are partial - ROM drops, but engine fires again and RPM needle slams back upward.

I did not push the clutch to the floor on partials, only on complete stalls that required dead stock landing on side of road. Most stalls are partials. Complete stalls only happen only when you keep pushing it until it fails (anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes of continuous operations).

There are hills here.

Regarding MAF - recall I tested that with DMM by back probing and it tested good (but of course that is not to say the problem may be intermittent.

I did not take my foot off the throttle or reduce throttle unless the stall was complete, engine stopped running, and a dead stick landing was required on the side of the road. There was some bucking as a consequence.

Next steps:

1. Do live data capture at stall using manual record function.
2. Use pending DTC functionality to check for spark loss (need to read the manual on storing/retrieving pending DTC's).
3.i will keep throttle depressed at least 50% during partial stalls.

For how long will the Innova 3160 store a pending code?

Thanks

Joe Tracker
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