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16 valve TPS Question
10-23-2018, 08:52 AM (This post was last modified: 10-23-2018 08:53 AM by Oscar.)
Post: #31
RE: 16 valve TPS Question
When I said wet, I meant that I checked the compression on number 4 a second time with a bit of oil added through the spark plug hole to see how much it changed the reading. All the spark plugs are dry.
I’m struggling with the leak down test. With number 4 at TDC and distributor rotor pointed at 4, the hiss is coming back up through the number 4 spark plug well. I’m going to take the valve cover off and try it again. Maybe a crack at the spark plug threads???

1986 Samurai with 1993 1.6 16V
1.6 completely rebuilt, Trail Tough harness modification and ECM bench test, injectors tested and cleaned, Thorley header, new cat, 2”exhaust
Trail Tough Epic Trek SPOA on 33” BFG KO2’s
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10-23-2018, 11:23 AM
Post: #32
RE: 16 valve TPS Question
tiger by the tail this engine.
hope you can get #4 solved !

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10-27-2018, 07:54 AM
Post: #33
RE: 16 valve TPS Question
Pulled the valve cover and re-did the leak down. When testing number 4, found air coming back out the 1 and 3 spark plug holes. Cracked head??? Pulling the head now to get it checked. I’ll let you know what I find. Thanks again for all your help!!!

1986 Samurai with 1993 1.6 16V
1.6 completely rebuilt, Trail Tough harness modification and ECM bench test, injectors tested and cleaned, Thorley header, new cat, 2”exhaust
Trail Tough Epic Trek SPOA on 33” BFG KO2’s
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10-27-2018, 08:28 AM
Post: #34
RE: 16 valve TPS Question
pull head
take to any machine shop or shop that does heads.
get it pressure tested and metal checked (spray chems tested)
tell your story.

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12-09-2018, 08:43 AM (This post was last modified: 12-09-2018 08:52 AM by Oscar.)
Post: #35
RE: 16 valve TPS Question
The shop is taking awhile to get the results on the head, so I ordered a refurbished one with new valves and springs from TrailTough. I will post old head results when available. I installed the new head with my cam and new Felpro gasket. I did a compression check to see if the issue with #4 cylinder was resolved.
Results: #1 @200, #2 @190, #3 @195, #4 @205....definitely better than before!
Thought I had it solved, but car still requires throttle input to start when cold and has same misfire. I took it to smog referee appointment anyway and failed for way high nox...see 5 gas report attached. I suspected the egr from reading all of your tech pages, so I did all the tests again. It’s a quad port. Passed stall, passed bark(although I don’t know how loud it should bark...chihuahua or Great Dane. Live test showed movement over 2500, but would close occasionally with throttle input all the way to 3500. I watched the diaphragm and it’s movement correlated directly with the misfire...misfires when diaphragm opens. EGRT and VSV tested good.


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1986 Samurai with 1993 1.6 16V
1.6 completely rebuilt, Trail Tough harness modification and ECM bench test, injectors tested and cleaned, Thorley header, new cat, 2”exhaust
Trail Tough Epic Trek SPOA on 33” BFG KO2’s
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12-10-2018, 09:08 PM (This post was last modified: 12-10-2018 09:34 PM by fixkick.)
Post: #36
RE: 16 valve TPS Question
(12-09-2018 08:43 AM)Oscar Wrote:  The shop is taking awhile to get the results on the head, so I ordered a refurbished one with new valves and springs from TrailTough. I will post old head results when available. I installed the new head with my cam and new Felpro gasket. I did a compression check to see if the issue with #4 cylinder was resolved.
Results: #1 @200, #2 @190, #3 @195, #4 @205....definitely better than before!
Thought I had it solved, but car still requires throttle input to start when cold and has same misfire.
the Iac in the bottom of the TB (bolted to the bottom of all 16v throttle bodies (TB) must be open it it will not be easy to start any 16v.
That IAC is most of the cold starting air supply, so adding right foot , adds the missing air.



I took it to smog referee appointment anyway and failed for way high nox...see 5 gas report attached. I suspected the egr from reading all of your tech pages, so I did all the tests again.

It’s a quad port. Passed stall, passed bark(although I don’t know how loud it should bark...chihuahua or Great Dane. (now that if funny) thanks!!!!


Live test showed movement over 2500, but would close occasionally with throttle input all the way to 3500. (WOT closed the valve on purpose)

I watched the diaphragm and it’s movement correlated directly with the misfire...misfires when diaphragm opens. EGRT and VSV tested good.

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12-10-2018, 09:34 PM (This post was last modified: 12-10-2018 10:18 PM by fixkick.)
Post: #37
RE: 16 valve TPS Question
gen2: (ignore mono port sparts) http://www.fixkick.com/EGR-Gen2a.html
NOX is super high.
NOX is lowest only if , 2 things happen, EGR does first half. and 3 way cat does 2nd, so most be a 3 way cat. (is it 3 waY0
ARE YO SURE THE 4 QUAD PORTS ARE FREE FLOWING? NOT RESTRICTED?
that crude stall test, must be done on hit engine 800rpm the push the diaphragm fully in, vacuum tool is best, as by hand rear or #4 intake runner, rear , EGR burns hand,
pump the EGR to 15 to 26inches HG see if it holds engine off, in not the diaphragm is bad. leaks, then pump it running, and at 800 hot idle the rpm goes to 400 rpm. (what did you get) RPM
if not the quad tubes are packed.
the intake manifold is tough cookie, it has egr S band at port 4, if packed will not let the egr flow from the EGR head tunnel (9mm? hole)
The other pain is the cat (3way pain 1) and the back pressure form the CAT is what pulses (#4 exh port) pulses the EGR mod valve,(bark tube i call it) this pulse can be weak for many reasons.
one is the wrong cat (1600 CC cat, is best ) not 6000 CC huge v8 engines cats will not work here.
the PSI pulse is about 1 PSI, if wrong cat used, the plus is way less and the mod valve may fail.
the EGR ports in the TB must be all clear, so the porting of vacuum works right.
this ported vacuum reaches the MOD

I dont like this movement over 2500, that can no be right, hot engine, and off idle
we have the curve here. (note it is load controlled and not rpm) so testing is super hard, to get this.
[Image: egr-gas-profile.JPG]

the VSV works or the valve EGR main will be dead.
vacuum lines routed wrong,
make sure the vents on the mod top are clean and the vent port is not packed in crap or the mod valve will be dead or weak.
the silly spin tires rule on this car may apply,
out of suzuki book and tracker,geo (may not be true on canada ecu or some very early 92 ECUs) (but if EGR moves parked, wheels on ground, this is not true below..
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/90-95/cal-egr-51.JPG

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12-10-2018, 10:09 PM
Post: #38
RE: 16 valve TPS Question
you said misfire? when?
what were the test condition at that moment, exactly.?
The the 400 stall test (Forced) for sure is a huge normal misfire event. in fact the engine shakes like wet dog, all normal stall test, forced.
if it misfires parked, and you just open the throttle, did it misfire then as the EGR opens.???? or were real wheels off the ground spinning?
no code 51? after lots of driving hot.? (or during)
51 means the egrt sensor exhaust flow is weak but 51 is a very crude test, replaced in 96 to cure that with EGR map valve to find if EGR works then.)
all my tests on the page are mostly to find why a EGR flow is dead. not weak, as you know weak is the hard one to prove and find.
the smog test proves it is. (do not go to real calif smog test station until, get a non reported test so you dont get hit for gross polluter rules, and then more testing. CALIF is pain with rules endless.

what some mech would say is my test are not definitive,(partly) but is wrong on the dead,my test are very effective. dead;.
but yes I have no test for 1,2,3 quad ports plugged up with carbon.
other than doing Exhaust (EGT) gas temperature sensor tests (like on aircraft engines) on 4 exhaust tubes, finding some too hot it has no EGR, flow.
IR gun may do just this job , throttle at 2500 rpm are all 4 tubes same temp. reading, as they exit the exhaust ports? (theory me, not tired)

The hard part is the relation ship from the MOD valve, to CAT (3way)
The mod is tuned to that stock cats back pressure. (1600 cc sized CAT) normal pressure.
this sets the modulation rate to the EGR main, for load, (engine load) the barks are stronger under max load and then EGR shuts off at WOT (or idle) by design.
the other failure to flow is a too tiny a CAT that had way to much back pressure to the MOD and opens up too wide too soon and caused misfire.

the mod valve can be bad, (most are just the air vent clogged, as the diaphragm is real nice HT silicon rubber, very, top quality and lasting)

also know that the best running engine and best fuel mix, makes max NOX
NOX means the combustion is super hot and super powerful and perfect, but when perfect NOX is formed. (and vastly worse on DIESELS, ask VW how that works for them HAH)
so the EGR simply lowers that temperature to below the NOX generation point, that is all it does, (or in truth lowers it enough so the CAT gets the remainder)
but on this tricky car 93' the 4 ports mean there are 4 separate NOX generating cylinders. (we dont know if all 4 fail or just some ,and would be a super good clue)

The other problem seen is non stock parts, (or near)
the CAT wrong sized or the 3way NOX part missing.
the EXhaust manifold is custom and the EGR port is too small or has tube that just loves to clog with carbon fast or one exhaust sold has only slot grove (#3) cut in the mounting flange it that loves to fail and clog. (this car love to make carbon in LIMPHOME mode, and then packs all EGR paths with carbon, yours is not in LIMP)
The head tunnel clogs (not yours I bet is clean)
the egr main fits on the mount #4 tube and there is on the head side to here this NASTY "S" bend that loves to clog.
eg: (see these series of photos by me and others contributed,)
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/90-95...age_3.html

conclusions?
if all is perfect EGR flow wises, EGR moves under load, and stall test does 400 rpm. (or even stalls)
or is just weak, EGR, the mod is bad or CAT problems (backpressure wrong (too big) or 3way missing nox section so is 2way cat.
or one egr quad port is clogged. (some)

tell me all facts on your stall test , how done and RPM

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12-10-2018, 10:14 PM
Post: #39
RE: 16 valve TPS Question
Live test showed movement over 2500, but would close occasionally with throttle input all the way to 3500. (WOT closed the valve on purpose)
is the rear wheels off ground test?
egr should open off idle, right off idle the TPS idle switch opens first, and the VSV then opens , and the TB EGR ported vacuum goes super strong
if the mod works (weakly at first) the MAIN now opens just a bit.

if you put load on engine the EGR opens fully, but is and impossible test lacking a dyno or IM240 rear wheel loader .
for sure NOX on your car is one hard nut to crack. ( a real challenge)

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12-10-2018, 10:17 PM
Post: #40
RE: 16 valve TPS Question
too bad at the smog test no mirror on fire wall to see the EGR main fail.
too bad that. under full 25mph load.
too bad suz, engineer did not put EGR valve on front #1 intake running not rear so we can see it at any time way more easy. dang.

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