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16 valve TPS Question
12-15-2017, 08:47 AM
Post: #1
16 valve TPS Question
Hi all! Just installed and calibrated a new OEM TPS on a 93 16 valve per the fixkick technical page. Everything checked out great on the bench(ohms tests). When the throttle body was back on the car, back probing the idle switch showed 0.017 volts closed. The fixkick technical info states it should be 0 volts. Is 0.017 volts close enough, or should it be a true zero? Thanks for any help

1986 Samurai with 1993 1.6 16V
1.6 completely rebuilt, Trail Tough harness modification and ECM bench test, injectors tested and cleaned, Thorley header, new cat, 2”exhaust
Trail Tough Epic Trek SPOA on 33” BFG KO2’s
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12-18-2017, 09:56 PM
Post: #2
RE: 16 valve TPS Question
.017 is zero, to the computer.
sorry so slow to answer !
its good to go it it idles and regulates idle, ok, at 800 hot it's ok./

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12-19-2017, 01:34 AM
Post: #3
RE: 16 valve TPS Question
Awesome, thank you! I’m chasing down something on this car that’s making high nox. Brand new build that won’t pass referee (damn California). Thanks for all the info on the tech pages, they’ve been helping a ton!

1986 Samurai with 1993 1.6 16V
1.6 completely rebuilt, Trail Tough harness modification and ECM bench test, injectors tested and cleaned, Thorley header, new cat, 2”exhaust
Trail Tough Epic Trek SPOA on 33” BFG KO2’s
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12-21-2017, 01:53 AM (This post was last modified: 12-21-2017 02:01 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #4
RE: 16 valve TPS Question
no code 51's
HIGH NOX, I AM A GOOD NOX GUY.
THE high nox worse case was in california.
the person with it was Samurai. with sidekick engine. we fix it. !!! and see my last line for the fix. below,

nox means combustion temps way too hot, seems odd that but is true and why diesels are worst of all (high compression there)
this car it is most hard, of all , as are 1993 , kick engine or 1993 toyota engines. (suzuki made the better in 1999 with pure electric EGR)
the hit lest.
first know that on this car NOX reductions are 1/2 EGR and 1/2 CAT.
so both must be working or NOX will fail.

this car the CAT back pressure must be good or the EGR modulator will be dead or metering wrong ! yes the EGR mod sucks swap gas...
see my egr pages, the stall tests, and the bark tests?

I guess your car has the quad intake port, EGR, from hell. as most all do. that year. 95s can be mono ports and for sure 96+

it has 4 count them 4 egr injector sin the intake runner ends. cast in place horrors. but can be cleaned with great effort
then the EGR main must open (stall test pass?)

the EGR head tunnel clear, (12mm bore) that tunnel goes to the exhaust manual fold runner 4 , only. and must be there. (some after market fail here)
The EGR mod then senses this runner #4 pressures on the right side of the head, and meters exhaust to the 4 intake injectors. (free and clear)
this makes the engine half NOX clean, if the bark test fails the head tunnel is packed or the #4 exhaust port packed up.

then the CAT does the rest and must be a 3 way cat, !!!
now the fix, on the 1 super hard case sammy.
HIS cat was welded into pipe too far from the stock header,

the cat loves to cool too fast at idle and went dirty, the idle on the stock car keeps the cat LIT off hot. at all times. and nox low.
he moved the cat full forward and was CURED ! just one simple fix after testing all aspects of the EGR on engine, all test. passed, and no code 51 and no code 51 hack to hid it (ask) (the resistor hack)

do you have the egr sensor egr main, EGRT (thermo probe sensor)? if it runs cold the ECU barfs 51s, all day.
the other cars, (fed/cal?) use vacuum only to test EGR and can not be fooled. also mixing up Cal/fed ecu will make it throw codes 51 or 52s
my guess your CEL blinks code 12, hot.?

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12-29-2017, 11:34 AM
Post: #5
RE: 16 valve TPS Question
The wildfires have been keeping me busy, but I’m back on this Sammy again chasing a gremlin!
No 51 or 52 codes...you’re correct that it is flashing 12 when hot. The statement about cat back pressure has me interested. The cat is brand new and is directly after the Thorley header, but I don’t know how much back pressure I’m getting with the 2” exhaust...may help to reduce diameter? It does pass the EGR stall test and I’ll do the bark test next. I cleaned the intake when it was off, but l had not yet read a bunch about some of the problem areas that get clogged up. I soaked it in the parts cleaner and blew it out with brake cleaner. Cleaned the EGR as well(no EGRT on my car, it’s vacuum only). I’ll post pics of the smog reports from the referee. It was close on my first attempt, then a local shop worked on it and it got way worse. (I performed all of the tests from the tech pages to the best of my ability and found nothing wrong, thought maybe a shop was necessary) They said the IAC(thermal) was bad and changed the throttle body(first they touched the “do not touch ever” screw...stupid!). The new throttle body and whatever else they did sent it off the charts on nox. Then took it back to them and they said the the EGR modulator and the VSV were bad...they replaced them with no improvement. Now they’re saying it’s just not making enough vacuum at the lower RPM/speed of the smog test to fully activate the EGR?!?! Scratching my head!!!

1986 Samurai with 1993 1.6 16V
1.6 completely rebuilt, Trail Tough harness modification and ECM bench test, injectors tested and cleaned, Thorley header, new cat, 2”exhaust
Trail Tough Epic Trek SPOA on 33” BFG KO2’s
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12-29-2017, 12:15 PM (This post was last modified: 12-29-2017 12:18 PM by Oscar.)
Post: #6
RE: 16 valve TPS Question
Smog reports. They posted in reverse chronological order


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1986 Samurai with 1993 1.6 16V
1.6 completely rebuilt, Trail Tough harness modification and ECM bench test, injectors tested and cleaned, Thorley header, new cat, 2”exhaust
Trail Tough Epic Trek SPOA on 33” BFG KO2’s
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01-11-2018, 06:35 AM (This post was last modified: 01-11-2018 07:01 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #7
RE: 16 valve TPS Question
LONG FULL ANSWER this time, all tests to find what I call the hARD nut cases.
sorry so slow, I never get emails subscriptions ever now, and cant figure the cure. but will keep trying.
I love seeing smog reports, they are fun for helpers , due to real data , is interesting... and easy here.
clean engine totally for all gases, perfect but . NOX is MAX (aka;NO) NOX is what burns eyes and lungs worse. nasty nasty stuff, and diesels worse.
is this a 3way cat there? it must be.
zero on CO, means all the fuel is burned and/or cat eat it all. (usually both) all good.

your EGR is dead.
why not post a photo of your intake manifold, (so i can see if its the mono port or quad port)
even a photo of cat so i can see how close it is to the header collector end port.

Even a brand new, sidekick (vitara or tracker) removed from the crate , with dead EGR (say night gremlins attacked it., lol) will do that.
in most causes, it be just 1/2 bad, not horrid bad.

the cat stock has stock backpressure, 2Liter or less engine matched.
say what if someone put a cat off some Lincoln/Cadillac say 5 liters. engine size\d.
so then the back pressure is no zero. and the EGR mode goes dead.

why not to the EGR tests.? more that stall and bark.
there are many tests. to do .

use a vucuum gage to see if the egr stalls engine?

the not enough vacuum is bogus. gee you use a $10 vacuum gauge and omg vacuum is good. in 10 seconds work the meter dont lie.
messing the idle stop screw was asinine, x10 tell them that is the job of the bleed screw up top point say this and only this sets idle duty cycle. RPM is ECU job, not anyone elses. ever.


there is test, called live EGR testing.
if the bark tube barks does it? it must,. this is the source of all cat back pressure that makes all MOD valves work
what i the tests.
well lets talk that, and stay away from the smog shop up until this worksl.
your EGR is dead, (and or cat not 3 way cat make sure it is FIRST) and must be to be legal and to PASS both.
the trouble with this test is suzuki changed rules late 1995.
yeas a PITA, that rule
this stinking rotten rule called, most be moving rule. yes, sux swap gas. (its covered in the 96 free book well)
but we can learn the rule as we test. ok>? all it takes are hands and a voltmeter.
got those? and a vacuum gage, you can not fix cars lacking one. for sure 90s cars with lots of vacuum bs.
Your car should be what I call GEN 2 EGR
per this page
http://www.fixkick.com/EGR-Gen2a.html

in 1995 suzuki switched from quad port to mono port, clearly marked above. which one you have I must know now.
see pipe 50 that is the #1 clues. if you have pipe 50 you are blessed with GOOD. 100x easier top clean !!!


learn that there is no EGR vaccum at idle ever. by 2 methods and reasons, the vacuum port on the TB is dead, at idle, (but your mech nicely (bad) wrecked that didnt he/)?
method 2 the VSV valve is 100 % closed, now, at idle (yes the idle switch must be closed, on all kicks at idle or the ecu thinks your not)
so you check vacuum at the P port, TB, see how i marked up the drawings showing "P" in gray?
zero vacuum there, then off idle abit vacuum rises.
at wot the eCU cuts EGR again.
if lucky the eGR MAIN opens parked or in neutral (MTgear gox) as you open the throttle and RPM rises you can feel the EGR diapham move or use mirror and look (2 person test)
they put the EGR main very hard to see, and for sure feel it ,while hot. after all the EGR is dead until hot. engine.

1: make sure so we next test vacuum at. (i will toss coin land on quad port drawing 1
The vacuum lands on 19 hose. must, if not this is sticking rotten rear wheels must turn car to get EGR, we can check easy if this is true next.
1b: 19 dead off idle (hand raise throttle) 19 dead.
we then check voltage on the coil of VSV pins, back probed. watch out this VSV runs backwards from normal thinking. STEP 2:

some valves are open with no key turned on, then with key on the 12vdc goes to valve and it closes.
then when engine is hot and the driver advances the throttle the 12vdc goes to 0 zero voltage and vacuum hits hose 19 and the MOD P nipple
as you see im doing all tests, from the beginning to the end. for the hard nut cases of EGR.

so what is next ?well if 19 goes to vacuum good vacuum, off idle as it must (not the rotten car version which i will do last for you)
move the vacuum gauge to nipple Q on the mod valve. dwg#1

best is Tee fitting here, we want to see what the EGR main sees. so we TEE it and test vacuum at the Q port ! Q= modulated
we gun the hot engine, and vacuum ,now modulated increases here, and helper 2 with a stick mirror sees the diaphragm move, as vacuum increases with RPM
this is the only pure test there is, and i continue..

this test if we see the Q port dead, we then check the bark port (well i do that long long ago )
but most time the bark test passes if the by hand stall passes (or vacuum hand pump why). they both use the same path almost.! but not quite true.

the bark tube nipple on many old EGR are small and LOVE TO CLOG and then renders the how EGR system Dead, so that is why we do the bark test, its childs play easy will of the tube is not crumbling in your hand. Suzuki upgrade the EGR main then to make the tube and it port larger, but lots of clones and other EGR made are wrong here and not upgraded.
The bark port (my name) is just that you yank it off idling and it barks. putt putt putt putt and #4 exhaust port rates.
this is the bark coming from the non stock manifold ,is the worn gasket used there blacking the after market EGR PORT if yes there will be no bark. but then again, stall works so Id say its mostly ok there./
that is it, if the bark is weak due to Cadillac CAT, then that be super hard to discover. 5liter cats have no use hear ever.s same with CADDY, PCV valves. ouch.


now the rotten stinker cars. with most drive car EGR>

just the drive shaft rear of transfer case must spin. (ecu now think car moves and opens EGR ) late 95 to 98 and beyond.
and the Transfer case , speedo gear ,must spin and the cable spin to speedo meter and the speedo meter must work and odomemter roll and the VSS sensor in side must click
or the EGR WILL DEAD forever. (hose 19 dead ) hose 16 is good.
if your ECU has this rule as some later ,95 have and for sure all 1996 to 1998 have then the EGR is dead. I first saw this engine on X90 , the last 95 built (engine)

if you drive the car, are you? the ECU will set VSS dead. but takes some serious driving to to do that.DTC code #24 is VSS dead.
VSS dead has more penalties too. not just above.

what must be done is drive the hot engine car, not all codes set parked, or cold . the car must driven hard to get some codes (DTC errors)
are you? have you?

that is it, there is more
but the above, steps will put you on track on any 95 made

gen 2;

your EGR is dead. sir. im sure.
if quad port, pipe 50 missing
3 ports clogged 1 working you fail smog on 3 dead ports.
easy.
that is why I ask first is this a mono port EGR or not, would save me 1/2 the typing or even 1 photo of the intake. right side.(drivers right)

cheers to you.. !!! and good luck finding OBD1 , techs...

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01-11-2018, 07:07 AM
Post: #8
RE: 16 valve TPS Question
let me do the rules on EGR. (just ECU logic only)
1: the new cars need VSS working
2: the tps idle switch must be working 0v idle, 5vdc off idle or many things will fail.
3:engine not. my guess over 150f but 180f is wiser.
4: egr is active off idle only
5: egr dead WOT mode. wide open throttle.
6: the rear wheels must spin or fool #1 above, the 1996 manual shows only left rear tire off pavement (not both) and mech 2 turns tire CCW, car trans in neutral. This makes rear prop shaft trun
knowing this we can test the EGR live.
if quad port #50 steel pipe missing the 4 ports must BE CLEAN, not packed solid.
the head tunnel must be clear.

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01-11-2018, 12:04 PM
Post: #9
RE: 16 valve TPS Question
You are right, it is a quad port. Was just out testing items from your earlier response when I came in to find your additional information...thank you!!! Bouncing back and forth between your response and the tech pages i was able to find why the car got worse after the shop worked on it. The EGR live test failed and I found that they had flipped the cap on the modulator and thereby had it plumbed backwards (P and Q going to the wrong spots). EGR now passing live test, woohoo! Found it odd that l had to spin the wheel on a 1993 to perform tests...does that make any sense? Started to think maybe a previous owner put an ECU in from a different year? Oh, and you asked for a pic of the cats relationship to the header...it’s as close as it could be(3-5” from the header flange) And it is a brand new 3 way cat specified for the vehicle.

1986 Samurai with 1993 1.6 16V
1.6 completely rebuilt, Trail Tough harness modification and ECM bench test, injectors tested and cleaned, Thorley header, new cat, 2”exhaust
Trail Tough Epic Trek SPOA on 33” BFG KO2’s
Find all posts by this user
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01-12-2018, 03:54 AM
Post: #10
RE: 16 valve TPS Question
MOST TIMES THE Q AND P CAP BACKWARDS IS OK.
the test to see that, is look down the pipe, inside , if its straight pipe, its ok, if not now. there are many of these modulators, on toyota's with tiny venturi on one end, omg, P and Q matters.
Mind your pints and quarts? LOL
yes, 93, but its the ECU that matters, the exact year, and on sammi, not sure what is there. sorry.
but i bet this EGR opens, HOT, parked, in neutral gunnning the engine, did it?

do the live test next. do not get it smog checked until the live test passing in your garage. driveway, or ? at home.
but the rule is 93.
no need to lift a tire.
engine hot.
idle switch works, right. (im sure it does now)
gun throttle by hand but not wot. just do like 1/2 throttle guns over and over.
person to with stick hand mirror looks at the EGR main diaphragm and see it move in 1/4 inch, to get full stroke, do aggressive gunning.
what happens is exhaust back pressure moves that diaphragm. on EGR main, as does the MOD diaphragm unseen.

the mod valve works like this.

http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/EGR/modva...-test.html

if you get good strong putts, the mod opens more.
and P and Q vacuum is strong to the egr main, and it moves next.

I hope that trail tuff harness wires the EGR VSV right.. oops..... it must.... be wires 2 wires to ECU or EGR will be dead.

that is way doing the vacuum tests first. finds this first. working the correct ends first. and that starts at the VSV (and the TB vacuum port)

rock on!

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