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Warmed up, idling too fast
06-09-2017, 09:57 PM
Post: #11
RE: Warmed up, idling too fast
Thank you for your great posts and info! I will peruse and see what fixes. Radiator is way down, and I sure hope what I thought was rain in the floorboard isn't my heater core blown out again. Doesn't smell like it, but I DEFINITELY have a coolant leak somewhere.

I'd driven this thing first big excursion (80 miles round trip) in a while, and it made it back but I had that feeling something was up. Next time out, began the weird.

I am fairly sure I used GL4 oil, but it is one that lacks meeting one of the weight numbers of the original spec. Only option I had at the time. I will check on the Pennzoil.

I tried to do the trans best I could at the time, given the lack of money and experience. Has new clutch and cable, but I do not trust that cable, it seems "off", compared to the factory one I had in there prior, despite being claimed to be a Beck Arnley.

Trans guy up the road said when I described the situation to him (was working on my sister's Explore) that my 5th gear ls "spalled", since ran low that time, will have to just tolerate the noise, or find another one (I never could). Said happens to Honda 5th gears a lot too.

This quote is gold: "nature hates a vacuum (on earth only)" Smile

Thanks again for your input! Smile Should know something more about the situation by end of day.
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06-09-2017, 10:49 PM (This post was last modified: 06-09-2017 10:54 PM by fixkick.)
Post: #12
RE: Warmed up, idling too fast
there are infact bad clutch cables sold for this car, seen them
the first clue is its not a steel out flex cable but is plastic,
,yes, 5th gear wobble will make noise, it is caused by running low on GL4, and that is mostly caused by the loss of the 2 top seal corks on the shift rails, they fall out and transmission slowly leaks GL4 and it goes low and damages internal parts. (reason is, defected Suzuki glue there)
part 35 fifth gear, spline death, seen here. on the rear of the main cluster gear set. note said gear is splash lubricated, so needs GL4 there all the time. up top is worse this way, needs full GL4 to receive more slash effects. My PO ran his box until the front cluster gear ,glowed cherry red. (the gear is bright blue now. parked on bench, with steel like butter)

faster list?
fast idle can be a daunting task, but need not be in most cases.
pinch hoses, or cork them. drops RPM now?
unplug the ISC wire plug, 400rpm is common, with other air leaks it still screams. above 800 rpm.
DP retracted?, a 1 second test , eyeballed hot, and failing, all tests while failing, of this fails ,we stop and fix it now.
IAC (thermaL) (clog its input port someway, this is the only hard test, ) IF FAILS PROVE THE HOT WATER REALLY DOES FLOW HERE, MANY TIMES NOT. AND IS BAD, FIX FLOW NOW.
idle stop screw not molested, the TV must be closed, in fact LOOK at it. that screw and the TV to bore must be closed. (air horn off) throttle cables set to factory 10mm free play.
bleed, screw in it till it hits strops count turns so you can put it back as it was, rPM drop below 800? now? at any time during this test? It must... or ISC can not do its job, ever.
most of these are fast checks, not hard at all.
one will fail, or if none fail above, then you have MR VACUUM leak from H3LL, (gaskets>?)
Case in point.
even as simple as this, one guy with bad EGR leaking and RPM at 400, his mech turn the bleed out to max, CCW to fix it and did not put it back after fixing EGR.
then it screams, all it was is BAD SERVICE and one screw set wrong or he OMG played with the throttle stop screw, like the CARB days. him a carb guy thinks EFI is carbs, and is not. 1991+
THE ISC can work one day, then not the next due to its duty cycle set wrong, and today is a hotter day and the next straw breaks the camels back and ISC loses controls. Duty cycle set wrong.

gears :?

here is a shorter list. (this works on all EFI cars, made, only the parts moved about to confuse us)
1: vacuum leaks,abnormal, gaskets hoses. etc, (on 16v add injector cushions leaking)
2: or normal leaker's failing ISC/IAC malf's. (including, dead, stuck or hot water is not flowing there)
3: car was sabotaged. a man with a screwdriver turning screws never to be turned, or not doing Duty cycle calibration correctly.
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06-09-2017, 11:00 PM (This post was last modified: 06-09-2017 11:04 PM by fixkick.)
Post: #13
RE: Warmed up, idling too fast
complexity happens. (there is more to this here, including ICE damage, and gaskets failing here, all very very bad things)

we'd die for a TBI , 3 air hose, on the IAC, so we could pinch it too, but there is none.
the IAC uses, sneaky air, as demonstrated here, clearly, with my crib notes
it sucks here,
[Image: bottom%20view1W.jpg]

and from here.
then sucks clean air from 2 ports here, one on right is cold water/engine port.
the 3rd port is on the left if the gasket here fails it sucks too much air and the bleed screw as now LOST CONTROL OF IDLE DUTYCYCLE
[Image: topview-1W.jpg]
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06-09-2017, 11:10 PM (This post was last modified: 06-09-2017 11:15 PM by fixkick.)
Post: #14
RE: Warmed up, idling too fast
complexity page 2:
see that bottom photo.
one guy named BOB, (all mechs in shop are BOB , joking I am)
BOB one day decides to put on a new gasket on the TB, , its old cracked breaking up and failing , good call but
fails to buy a real gasket or note how one must look, and work. (or worse, the car he is fixing now , had wrong gasket from mechanic called LARRY 3 years ago)
Chaos, is never fun. not will suzuki help you... here.

SEE these?
see those 5 small holes on the left photo above, BOB left those open.
Bob did not know that those are called DRILLINGs. as seen in carbs for years and years, these holes allowed the maker to put in the TB side bored air jets. (cross drilled) on some cabs they use lead plugs here, but in this case a very special gasket is used, see?
so those MUST BE BLOCK or the car will never run right again, or cause the ISC to go nuts, or be UNRELIABLE.
Sadly this failure mode, takes a much harder inspection,

little did BOB know that SMP makes a gasket kit but SMP then fails to tell you why it has extra gaskets and worse which one matches your car, a HORROR.
the A/T car has a bottom electric heater, in USA for EPA laws...
oops. the top 2 are your 2, gaskets I think, Manual trans?

SMP 1716
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06-13-2017, 07:45 PM
Post: #15
RE: Warmed up, idling too fast
Thanks again for the GREAT info. I never know why those extra holes were there, indeed. But don't think I have to remove to that level (yet, though might).

Sad news (well, could be worse) is that my water pump or gasketing there seems to have failed (long time since last pump), otherwise, something right there at edge of pump is leaking, openly? I was just out trying to top off the radiator, and it's spilling out near it, at a weep point I guess. I don't see a hose there, but nothing is coming out of the top weep point on the pump either, it is below, so I am thinking gasket failure, maybe? Really hard to see there, bottom left of pump area.

Bad, because it's a pain to change (time for a timing belt though anyway), but good if it's not my heater core again.

I think my idle might fix up once that is replaced and there's actual coolant in the car. Shame though I just wasted half a gallon of that pricey stuff, thinking it was a slower leak than that.

I probably need to find an OEM clutch cable. I really don't think the one I have is legit. Same box as Beck Arnley, but ultra-cheap feeling plastic end. My old one was metal, I think?
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06-13-2017, 10:35 PM (This post was last modified: 06-13-2017 11:04 PM by fixkick.)
Post: #16
RE: Warmed up, idling too fast
old cars are like that, lots of problems, most of them 5 or 10 things wrong, all ignored and they stack up..
the pumps all fail, not one ever lasts to end of engine life, the weep hole on the front end of pump , lets you know the seal just failed, and now bearings inside, are next, "today"
we call that the Tell Tale hole.
the water can leak there, and show up, down hill from there, due to gravity. keep in mind good coolant is very near clear,slight yellow and can leak, unseen easy , at the source. (takes careful looking , park car, get it hot, and find all leaks now, under pressure all external leaks can be seen, most)
the rear of the pump , (suction side) has a hidden o-ring that fails and is on the rear, at the suction manifold, or it too can leak or rust,its steel, and will rust if not kept painted.
sounds like the while cooling system is sick, needs a flush bad, if you ignore coolant it goes to acidic, and eats the heater core, to death first then RAD.
it also can clog those tiny hoses if the system is allowed to turn to mud.
Letting mud build up in the water jackets, will make cylinders have hots spots on the low end, never good that.
the clutch cable is all steel on the main outer casing, and at the end is a rubber bellows, to keep out road water and salts and attendant damage,.
its all steel.
some have black film coating, on the outer, casing this is only for water proofing the casing but the cables casing and the center wire is all steal. end to end.

center wire steel ,end to end.
casing is thick steel. end to end.
thin covering , water proofing, over thick casing,
end is steel threaded shaft. in all cases.
bellows boot on end on some
1996 , new bushing mount, as seen below. before this year, the end casing is a threaded shaft to a special body mount and huge hut there. holding it.

on the latter years, the end if the the cable sheath , they deleted the thread there, and used a rubber, bushing, that just slides into the bracket.
this modification shaved work , making millions of cars, time is money earned, at CAMI..
here it is on my bad clutch page
shows exactly what it is, major parts are all steel. all other parts are water proofing or bushing.
this is 1996.up
this is the wrong cable, just showing it , to illustrate how different it is. Buying after market parts on this this, part, is very very hard.
its not hard of you see why they changed and how.
[Image: 96-cable.jpg]

the cables , I made a table. below. long ago, im sure more makers,produce them now. (check out
the reason this can be hard, is from ENGINE swaps. the owners , unwittingly upgrade the clutch cable mounts.! there are 3 cables. used in the ERA.
the only problem with cables besides length, is the rubber end mount or not.
if you have 2 nuts, there, 1 for end center cable, and 1 for the sheath nut, then its the old style screw mount.
i cant see yours mount to say. 1way or other other.
The complexity is (A/C option , 8v or 16v, 4doors, and 2door, and 2wd or 4wd) all these factors can change what cable was used,
mine was so long the bottom of my Engine Radiator had a clutch cable clip there, (built new that way)

the coolant is under pressure, hot, as much as 14 PSI. (raises the boiling point and also makes finding leaks way more easy, under pressure)
if there is a leak it will get worse, if you let it go acidic, you risk wrecking freeze plugs (core plugs) and that is far far more hard to fix.

yes the coolant is $11 a gallon, not on sale? 4 quarts, makes 8 quarts mixed and is more that you need, 5.6 quarts max is spec. seen here
page 7 ,
my guess tad more with plastic side expansion tank 1/2 full. but can be more if wrong radiator, used, the 4 door is bigger rad , in some cases.

when the government banned the last coolant, chems., the price tripled. as per usual. but cheaper that gluten free, mountain spring water,, LOL
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06-13-2017, 11:17 PM
Post: #17
RE: Warmed up, idling too fast
we fix leaks first.
if ignored, you risk a warped cylinder head or worse.
never ignore leaks or coolant that changes to a bad color, or bad always happens or cascades.
if one hose leaks, more will follow, is all are 25 years old,
the pump is best changed at the belt change, (or get to do this job 2 times)
by a top brand pump, those no name pumps from china are junk, as are so called rebuilts.
I look for real names from JAPAN, SEE AISIN this is used, on many cars made in JAPAN new, and is same maker as your transmission. a top brand.
I'd not touch below $20, not me , and all that hard work to repeat... not me.. that is advice.
I think GATES sells a kit with belt , idler and pump? they have and full online catalog, free to read. called NAVIGATES,2208
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06-13-2017, 11:21 PM (This post was last modified: 06-13-2017 11:21 PM by fixkick.)
Post: #18
RE: Warmed up, idling too fast
hey , i figured out , Becks trick on clutch belts.

CALIF means 16v
FED means 8v, this is because california banned the 8v there back on that date.
cute, and crazy way to spec a cable, not.

best i can tell , your cable is this , seen on becks page at
it is NOT plastic,
note the threaded, end casing,
[Image: BA0930598-1__ra_p.jpg]
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06-13-2017, 11:24 PM
Post: #19
RE: Warmed up, idling too fast,1972
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06-13-2017, 11:26 PM
Post: #20
RE: Warmed up, idling too fast
rock auto still fails to ask you engine in car. what engine is it, and makes buying parts hard.
The GEO tracker is easy , vin code U and 6, (8v/16v)
but the suzuki company (daft) used engine code VIN 0 for both engines!!!, this is the cause of 1/2 the parts sold being wrong,
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