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1.6 Swap Injecton problem
04-11-2017, 08:42 PM
Post: #31
RE: 1.6 Swap Injecton problem
(04-02-2017 11:59 PM)fixkick Wrote:  your welcome.
i even have details in the 56bxx ecu, not seen anywhere else

even shows you what chip burned up, outputs,
inputs on this ecu never blow up, fully protected they are(baring direct lightening hits, lol)
but outputs have zero protection.
and will blow up., transistors or other wise.

http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/ECU-8v.html



here is my 56b30 reverse engineering work for outputs,, if you have a bad output the , path to the bad part can be traced,...
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/transistors.html


Hi man!!!

I have another question, i mounted the 1.6 distributor and with the gearbox in "N" position, the car when is hot seems to run perfect when i rev the engine, but driving i can feel still a little hesitation always at low rpm, i can't understand if it is a misfiring or a knock.

Can This can be a timing Ignition Problem? I remember that when i had the 1.3 the Ignition timing didn't affect so much the functioning of the engine, it surely didn't cause hesitation like the one i feel now with this engine, but okay this is of course another planet.

I took a photo of a connector that if i didn't misunderstood is used to keep the ignition timing static just to correctly adjust it, can you confirm? See picture attached.

And I have to say another thing, i bypassed the cold start fast Idle, stopping the way on the TBI (that one with a little cover with three screws that keep it in place.

I did the same modification on the 1.3 because i hated have the engine at 1500 RMP when the car was cold, and this never gave me problems, can be a problem on the 1.6 System?

Thank you a lot.


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04-11-2017, 10:48 PM
Post: #32
RE: 1.6 Swap Injecton problem
(04-11-2017 08:42 PM)loe92 Wrote:  
(04-02-2017 11:59 PM)fixkick Wrote:  your welcome.
i even have details in the 56bxx ecu, not seen anywhere else

even shows you what chip burned up, outputs,
inputs on this ecu never blow up, fully protected they are(baring direct lightening hits, lol)
but outputs have zero protection.
and will blow up., transistors or other wise.

http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/ECU-8v.html



here is my 56b30 reverse engineering work for outputs,, if you have a bad output the , path to the bad part can be traced,...
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/transistors.html


Hi man!!!

I have another question, i mounted the 1.6 distributor and with the gearbox (5sp) in "N" position, the car when is hot seems to run perfect when i rev the engine, but driving i can feel still a little hesitation always at low rpm, i can't understand if it is a misfiring or a knock.
LITTLE HESITATIOs: many causes but if engines ok, its just spark or fuel wrong (fuel can be bad TPS, its the whole purpose is to see right foot move fast and go to ENRICH MODE)

Can This can be a timing Ignition Problem? (no timing light? all G13/16, must be time,(static timing" is easy to set. you can not time any engine by sound. only on a dyno

I remember that when i had the 1.3 the Ignition timing didn't affect so much the functioning of the engine, it surely didn't cause hesitation like the one i feel now with this engine, but okay this is of course another planet.
you need to publish you cars custom setup. so everyone knows what Frankenkick means in this case.

I took a photo of a connector that if i didn't misunderstood is used to keep the ignition timing static just to correctly adjust it, can you confirm? See picture attached. (I can not guess what you have at all, all EFI parts )

And I have to say another thing, i bypassed the cold start fast Idle, stopping the way on the TBI (that one with a little cover with three screws that keep it in place. (that makes cold starts wont to flood the engine, and confuses the ECU all to H3LL that trick)

I did the same modification on the 1.3 because i hated have the engine at 1500 RMP when the car was cold, and this never gave me problems, can be a problem on the 1.6 System?
it never gave you a problem, my guess the 1.3 was in limphome or ECU lost, and therefore cant tell this deed. why look backwards. to something long gone
and not work this car. only.
DO you know what limphome is (failsafe) and ECU gets lost? (lost means ECU lost controls of fueling or spark on 56Bxx ECU) on the Sammi ECU,. ive no clues.

Thank you a lot.

the TBI engine runs very poorly (1 injector way up top) when cold. (all do)
the fuel wants to make a puddle of liquid gas there, just below the TBI in the Plenum box.
this makes it run bad , makes huge smog. and wants to stall, and slows the warmup, if idle speed is defeated.
This is why the TBI was first banned in Calif. forcing only G16b sales there. in 1992 or so...
IF 1500 RPM is fearsome, why not just put in Synthetic oil. and let it do as the engineer wanted. Its so bad they put a heater below the TBI on all automatics trans TBI.
The dash pot does same thing, it races the engine for 1 to 3 seconds at cold start. then the IAC in the base of the TBI is open until 150F
then it closes, ALL TBI do that. Hot RPM is 800, by virtue of the ISC electric, idle controller, ECU sets RPM, hard coded, and 1000 for a/c on or P'/s overloaded.
This ECU is not smart at all, doing things to fool it is going to , cause bad effects.
but if you have hesitation.
it can be (not engine )
1: sparktiming wrong on the Sammi ECU its got a vacuum advance that must work. then centrifigal advance kicks in later, if not the engine will lack power.
Distributors can only be tested for power on a dyno.. not parked in driveway, with no engine load.
spark timimg is complex in the 56Bxx ecu its tables for RPM and LOAD. both.
on the sammi ecu its only the distributor, its 2 axis too but is RPM and LOAD, load is Vacuum in this case.
2: next is a working TPS, the device tells the ECU your foot moved real fast. and causes the ECU to engage, ENRICH mode, if this does not happen
all EFI engines made BOG, the catch up, this is called hesitation.
3: it can also be cause by spark wrong, in all cases. that is why the 1st step on a new engine (not inside it) is to time it.
The if running vacuum advance, (are you?) then this makes huge power off the line, you can prove that on any car by cutting vacuum to it and driving.
4: If the injector is half clogged or pressures weak, the ECU can in fact be confused by this, because. ENRICH runs 12.:1 AFR, in the mode. and if
the injectors was not injecting correctly IT WILL BOG, and may catch up but on hills it will bog the full time.
you dont have a $20 timing light?

if driving 40mph and you TIP-IN, (means jab the throttle) does it hesitate then?

the 1.3L EFI is in no why like 1.6L EFI
they old ecu (some) do not do spark at all. huge differences, there.
in fact you can pull the ECU out of car and crank engine and spark happens on early TBI, and spray test fuel and it runs no ECU, (proof)
on yours 56bxx means , the ECU now does all spark, a major change here in 1991.
60A does not.(sparkless , ECU)
the 80C , DOES SPARK WITH ECU
http://fixkick.com/sammi-stuff/late-sammi-efi-94.jpg

in all cases the ECU knows that spark advances and uses fuel tables to match it.
for a perfect burn. (then at cruise the 02 oxy sensor comes on line and fueling goes to 14.7Smile
the fuel and spark are controlled by TABLES in the ECU, carefully tuned with a DYNO at the factory .
if you lie to the ECU, then it uses the wrong table points. (indexed wrong)
RPM will be ok
but not load
and fuel if wrong rates or spark not happening correctly the ECU will mess up.
and water temps must be right too, at all times.
in the case of the spark-less ECU. it monitors spark only and fuel rates are based off what it saw.
sorry cant be for exact as I do not know what Frankenkick parts are connected. (all I know 1/2 G13 /G16)

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04-11-2017, 10:52 PM
Post: #33
RE: 1.6 Swap Injecton problem
see my DLC page yet, with real photos too, not "drafted drawing" only
see photo 2, see how it matches yours, see that rubber cap that pops off ,that CAP yells, DLC .
http://www.fixkick.com/CEL/DLC/DiagJump.html

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04-11-2017, 10:55 PM
Post: #34
RE: 1.6 Swap Injecton problem
there is no harder car to work on than a Frankekick (franken car)
what makes it hard is the ECU.
in the end, you must make it happy and doing things to fool it, will fail,. now or at some other moment , not so convenient like passing a logging truck (my fav, joke) (or stalling down hill in front of one.omg)
what we do here, is move all EFI and harness parts and engine to the SAMMI.
this avoids 99% of the problems.
then only the speed cluster will not plug in, but can be fixed easy with VSS changes.

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04-11-2017, 11:15 PM
Post: #35
RE: 1.6 Swap Injecton problem
are you now running the spark ECU?
with a distributor with CMP inside,
The CMP distributor can have 3 pins (we have 56Bxx distrib)
one pin is 12vdc power. (if 0volts spark ends NOW)
one pin is ground, see above for answer.
one pin is CMP signal out, if it dies ECU cuts fuel spark ends and engine stalls. every time. no 2nd chances...

my CMP pages show scope readings, for this pin. a clean 5vdc square wave. the ECU has pullup resistor to do that.
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/CAS-91.jpg

now the ignitor
the ECU fires the ignitor and then watches it via the suppressor, (tacho line brown) if the ecu sees that line go dead, it CUTS FUEL now.
and tacho goes dead with that event.

the spark timing is set on all spark ecu's (up to about 20043 year) with a timing freeze jumper inserted into your DLC pins. (paper clip works)
unlike old CARB cars and old SAMMI (are mechanical advanced)

ECU spark.:
the spark timing is aggressive , at hot idle, it jumps like mad this magic , burns all fuel , doing that. It saves fuel, saves overheating that CAT
and cuts smog, so is Aggressively advanced at all time (yes, more ECU tables ) means we cant change this.
that is why I call it the timing freeze.


on yours pin 4 and 5 jumped DLC is freeze.
suzuki calls this "test switch terminal" (huh?) I call it what it is and what it does,.


http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/IGN-FREEZE.HTML

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05-26-2017, 03:36 AM
Post: #36
RE: 1.6 Swap Injecton problem
HI Man,

I don't know why, but my car now, seems working well, In the past weeks i used to regulate again the TPS and i switched to another injector.
At the beginning i used a bit the car and it had still the Hesitation, After some KM the car starts to go well by itself (BAD FUEL MAYBE ? WHO KNOWS).

I Just have a last question, Can i weld on my Custom Exhaust the 1.3 Catalytic Converter o i need to find a 1.6 Catalytic Converter?

I don't have a nice CO and i want to try to improve that.





(04-11-2017 11:15 PM)fixkick Wrote:  are you now running the spark ECU?
with a distributor with CMP inside,
The CMP distributor can have 3 pins (we have 56Bxx distrib)
one pin is 12vdc power. (if 0volts spark ends NOW)
one pin is ground, see above for answer.
one pin is CMP signal out, if it dies ECU cuts fuel spark ends and engine stalls. every time. no 2nd chances...

my CMP pages show scope readings, for this pin. a clean 5vdc square wave. the ECU has pullup resistor to do that.
http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/CAS-91.jpg

now the ignitor
the ECU fires the ignitor and then watches it via the suppressor, (tacho line brown) if the ecu sees that line go dead, it CUTS FUEL now.
and tacho goes dead with that event.

the spark timing is set on all spark ecu's (up to about 20043 year) with a timing freeze jumper inserted into your DLC pins. (paper clip works)
unlike old CARB cars and old SAMMI (are mechanical advanced)

ECU spark.:
the spark timing is aggressive , at hot idle, it jumps like mad this magic , burns all fuel , doing that. It saves fuel, saves overheating that CAT
and cuts smog, so is Aggressively advanced at all time (yes, more ECU tables ) means we cant change this.
that is why I call it the timing freeze.


on yours pin 4 and 5 jumped DLC is freeze.
suzuki calls this "test switch terminal" (huh?) I call it what it is and what it does,.


http://www.fixkick.com/IGN_timing/IGN-FREEZE.HTML
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05-26-2017, 03:43 AM
Post: #37
RE: 1.6 Swap Injecton problem
[quote='loe92' pid='8297' dateline='1495733811']
HI Man,

I don't know why, but my car now, seems working well, In the past weeks i used to regulate again the TPS and i switched to another injector.
At the beginning i used a bit the car and it had still the Hesitation, After some KM the car starts to go well by itself (BAD FUEL MAYBE ? WHO KNOWS).

I Just have a last question, Can i weld on my Custom Exhaust the 1.3 Catalytic Converter o i need to find a 1.6 Catalytic Converter?

I don't have a nice CO and i want to try to improve that.


my guess bad fuel or the new fuel cleaned out the injector but is all good news, congrats !!!\

sure you can use any exhaust setup. so long as
1: IT HAS BACK pressure at CAT to EGR works, if you want it to work.
2: cat is there., sure,
3: O2 in the correct spot like stock.,
4: any 3 way cat, and the more forward the better, (usually only California issue this) this makes it warm up faster and pass smog, some cars its goes too cold at idle too fast and can fail smog that way.
3ways, HC, CO and EGR NOX ..


im so happy you got this beast going, nice work!!!!

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05-26-2017, 05:05 AM
Post: #38
RE: 1.6 Swap Injecton problem
(05-26-2017 03:43 AM)fixkick Wrote:  [quote='loe92' pid='8297' dateline='1495733811']
HI Man,

I don't know why, but my car now, seems working well, In the past weeks i used to regulate again the TPS and i switched to another injector.
At the beginning i used a bit the car and it had still the Hesitation, After some KM the car starts to go well by itself (BAD FUEL MAYBE ? WHO KNOWS).

I Just have a last question, Can i weld on my Custom Exhaust the 1.3 Catalytic Converter o i need to find a 1.6 Catalytic Converter?

I don't have a nice CO and i want to try to improve that.


my guess bad fuel or the new fuel cleaned out the injector but is all good news, congrats !!!\

sure you can use any exhaust setup. so long as
1: IT HAS BACK pressure at CAT to EGR works, if you want it to work.
2: cat is there., sure,
3: O2 in the correct spot like stock.,
4: any 3 way cat, and the more forward the better, (usually only California issue this) this makes it warm up faster and pass smog, some cars its goes too cold at idle too fast and can fail smog that way.
3ways, HC, CO and EGR NOX ..


im so happy you got this beast going, nice work!!!!

I have this on the car.    

I want to Weld the CAT, after the Lambda sensor on the CONE that you can see in the picture

Man of course if you didn't help me with your advices and you're great technical informations i couldn't do anything.

You've a very big knowledge and i thank you again for your HELP.

If i will come to USA i'll find you just to shake your hand!!!!


(i don't know why i wrote "i used to regulate again the TPS" i meant to say I adjusted again the TPS LOOOL)
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05-29-2017, 02:41 AM
Post: #39
RE: 1.6 Swap Injecton problem
why not weld matching flange to the cat and bolt it on.
doing no damage to the header at all.
cat back , anything works, even straight pipe and no muff.

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06-20-2017, 06:53 AM
Post: #40
RE: 1.6 Swap Injecton problem
(05-29-2017 02:41 AM)fixkick Wrote:  why not weld matching flange to the cat and bolt it on.
doing no damage to the header at all.
cat back , anything works, even straight pipe and no muff.

Hi man!!!!!

The emission test is passed !!!

The man who did the test told me that he never saw a samurai running so good 

I have just a last question.


On the Catalytic converter that I have mounted on the car,

There is a second O2 sensor with two wires.

I know that one wire goes to the A16 pin on the ECU and the other goes to the A24 on the ecu.

In the electrical schematics of the samurai (in the 1.6 is the same thing) I see that these two wires goes from the ecu to the egr sensor temperature that I don’t have on my car.

My question is:

can I try to connect this sensor on the 1.6 ecu or this is useless?

The car now is running perfectly it’s just a curiosity.
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