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Could really use some help
11-18-2016, 03:28 AM (This post was last modified: 11-18-2016 03:38 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #31
RE: Could really use some help
virtual signature 1992 8v. G16a, located, door count? trans type, and 2w/4wd??????
was the test at the filter BANJO, 6mm screw test port, I need to know this, a detail very important to causes.

(11-18-2016 01:13 AM)gc73 Wrote:  OK, lot of info to get through here.

Before we delve into the hack wire issue I want to throw out that i checked fuel pressure last night as well. cycled key a few times made it to about 15 PSI. started and let idle for few minutes and it made it up to about 20PSI if you would give it some throttle the PSI drops a little when it revs, down to maybe 18PSI and then back up. seemed to hold pressure fairly well with key off. So i know fuel pressure is low and i have order a pump (WHY):? and plan on getting that swapped hopefully this weekend. (Auto parts stores charge about 5x of what can find thing on the internet, Ridiculous)
yes, pumps come in JUNK ($10 at fleebay) and the good ones are all listed on rockauto, by name see those famous names, bingo, x10



that is NO GOOD. so car has 2 problems, all very normal on old cars, for sure.
the spec, is clear, its 34 to 41psi. covered in post 4, and is WRONG, cant ignore dead wrong pressures. sure,,, but you never told me your ALTITUDE.?????
btw key on pressure , max. (due to FPR actions)
here is the factory manual, on that, verbatum

http://www.fixkick.com/INJECTORS/PUMP/8v...ess95w.jpg

do not order pumps please, there are 2 simple tests first. Why take a bath in fuel 2 times.>>????
no pump works with a bad FPR, so we do what ?, (on the FPR PAGE) we, pinch off the return line on FPR (its the only line there)
if pressure goes to 50 to 60lbs, the FPR IS DEAD. See this on my pump page, called the SHUT test and repeats again on my FPR page.
if pressure fails, now. the pump is bad, but WAIT
rule 3, the pump only works with 12vdc to it. so if you measure 6v at pump or near (2 wires) then we know the voltage must be 12v (10 to 12 cranking , 14v running, (amps are 4 amps)
yes pumps can be 1/2 shorted, and suck 10 amps, and voltage drops. we check voltage always, and current, if the voltage is low and current at spec, the wires are bad, like all sidekicks to and for sure 2door kicks.
the 2 door has the bad ground on everyone, now, left rear tail light pit as seen in my pump test page, and the pink wire connector is away rusty (TODAY) and more down stream to tank same sad story.
rule 1 filter not packed. pressure will huge if using the BANJO PORT. but not after the filter. see?



Now onto hack wire....
FAILURE 2:

I cut the solid black between the igniter and the TPS/FI connector. and this is when i was not getting any fuel. I did not check to see if i was still spark but know for sure that without the hack wire we got ZERO fuel through injector when cranking.
there are 5 ways to get no fuel, even with 34psi fuel pressure, min.

The wire splices in at the igniter plug on the black wire and then also Y's in at the TPS connector into the red wire.
OK I guessed this, so the hacker hotwire the injector red wire, now that is a fact.
So that red wire continues to go both directions at TPS Conn. The yellow wire that also goes to injector and through that connector is hooked up and going through that connector, appears not to have any hacks done on it. i just had everything pulled off to side for that picture. You can actually see the yellow wire in among the other wires to the right. (but can not be seen going into the connector in the photo making me not know anything useful.)
you do know right that hacking the EFI is all wrong, and doomed, right?
Once we get on this same page, then we can cure that.
in a real shop, (say lucky first try)
the tech did this.
the story of your car, in the hands of a pro
car runs bad, (engine power , all wrong)
finds fuel pressure ok (pretend)
then DTC are 12s, ECU says IM happy
all sensors are good, compression ok, vacuum not bouncing, and CAT not melted (DO YOU HAVE ONE? ) be nice to know that.
he then checks the MAP its ok. shows, 1.2v at idle.
he then scopes the injector wires for the 3mS pulses, (3/1000th of a second, )
he fails to see this, but only 12vdc, the injector wires show its hack.
http://www.fixkick.com/INJECTORS/INJ-red-gnd-1w.jpg


he sees no pulse, and sees 12vdc steady line, its HACKED
possibles
1: the wire to the ECU RED is bad. fixes that and bingo it pulses
2: ECU is bad. gets rebuild.
2b: reads my ECU page sees Q101 is easy fix and fixes, it.

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11-18-2016, 03:34 AM
Post: #32
RE: Could really use some help
now my guess
previous owner hacked car, ran in limphome for 3 years at 15mpg, suck fuel bad..... (the illegal hot wire to injector)
new owner, finds hack, fixes hack and find fuel pressure low.
or new owner fixes pressure, and back to limphome again, ecu still bad and closed loop never happens again. nor can EFI work right, ever. sure runs but that be all we can say.

just 3 lines, explain all this.
did i nail it>?

I'd run a new wire from ecu to red injector wire, (i can only pray yellow is ok , i cant see it. )
then see if injector fires, if yes , bad harness now fixed.
if no? the ECU is in fact bad, for sure.

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11-18-2016, 04:03 AM (This post was last modified: 11-18-2016 04:20 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #33
RE: Could really use some help
lost my newest post,
is still dont know how many doors???? the car has,,, are only your car, the harness for 4doors are not same as 2doors, sorry. but
where was pressure tested, name the spot exactly please.?????
does the engine still have a CAT CON, Cat converter there?

nor do I know your ALTITUDE. (if near sea level say so , if in DENVER yah or Colorado springs, for sure.) in a sea port, say near sea....
do the FPR tests, got 60psi now. shunted. (hose pinched)
did you test pressure with fuel cap off, some are bad or wrong caps. (vacuum breaker missing or bad, this is 1min work )
pretend its 10. psi
new pump>?
I check pump voltage, , no not yet, on all Kicks vitaras an trackers for 3 generations, we check voltage first
6 volts is NO GOOD.
but has 2 causes. (bad pump ,bad wires) when i say wires are bad ,that means end to end, all wires this pair, and connections on that wire, its a conductor and must conduct with nill resistance.

This page covers them all.
http://www.fixkick.com/INJECTORS/PUMP/dead-pump.html


see the harness drawing, marked 2doors loves.?
if 2 doors, that G402 screw, will be rusty , in 2016. kinda for sure. pump black ground loves to fail HERE, like clockwork.
now look at the harness drawing, see that?
see C403 on left side, behind tail lamp, the pink wire is pump power, if rusty its hopeless., here. one can measure the voltage at the pink wire
if 12vdc ok. if 6vd, measure current ,if volts 6v and amps 4amps, then find the bad connector.
if 6v and 10amps the pump is shorted and is bad.
if 12vdc is ok. then
see center bumper pump connector pair, 12vdc across them (means near battery voltage every time I say 12v.) 10v cranked, 14 running is par.

The pump needs 12vdc run right, its just a DC brush motor., and works like all DC motors.
the suzuki wiring is weak, it will go to a low voltage if the pump shorts one commutator segment and sucks 10 amps, and this causes the low gauge wire to drop voltage.
end to end,

on some side kicks the pump can even lower the voltage in the ECU and cause it to crash. (reboots, over and over)
the voltages matter big time here.

we use a simple ammeter, to measure this. 4amps.

4amps is spec, at 12v.

when we do fuel pressure we do a battery of tests,.
why because old cars can have many fails.

the pressure key, pressure running, the shut test.
the vacuum applied to FPR pressure tests, this test the FPR that love to fail this old so we never skip testing it after all the gauge is connected and takes me 5min to finish this one test.
the injector leak down test is last.

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11-18-2016, 04:09 AM (This post was last modified: 11-18-2016 04:11 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #34
RE: Could really use some help
as you can see,diagnosis is complex!
guessing at bad parts, is super long down time , long labor, (tank off 3 times?) or very costly
we check pressure first on all EFI (and do all pressure test , not just one)
when it fails the FPR tested,
if that works we check voltage next, not pull tank until voltage is seen ok on the last connector pair good.

most on the road, cars EFI the ECU is blind to pressure, no sensor. so that is always first , anytime fueling seems weak or too much.
and a new car it tells you pressure is good. or bad. nice but (the ECU brain dont know why only IS)
then we do the same thing, the same way..

we have a video of master shop showing the lab scope current probe test, on the pump wire.
where he says, see here, see the classic commutator shorts?
in a shop they do one test, and its all over (electric test) Shows volts and amps at one go.
the pump is fuel cooled and fuel lubricated, do dont forget that.
dont run it dry, it hates that.

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11-18-2016, 04:16 AM
Post: #35
RE: Could really use some help
i never saw where the yellow wire went?
thank of my perspective?
is see hacking, what do I do?
i look at every INCH OF EFI for more hacking
most hackers are like a disease, they spread their evil, mess.
we look for alarms from hell
and remote start hack jobs.
and the fleabay , cruise option box failure.
and more, toys added to cars, that wreck the EFI major primary wiring in any way shape or form (even audio hacks)
that is what I do.
in fact, if is see one example of that, the car is not bought.

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10-18-2017, 04:50 AM
Post: #36
RE: Could really use some help
Been awhile since ive posted but still having same issue of poor rough running and lack of power and hesitation.

I sent my computer in to be repaired and it was reported to me that it had a bad injector circuit. thought great this was the problem will work good now. Nope. still doing same thing. i also ran 2 new wires to the injector like you suggested. This also did not help. The rig will run now with out the "hack wire" so we have made some progress. Could that hack wire have screwed up the injector itself?

any help is much appreciated.
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10-18-2017, 05:13 AM (This post was last modified: 10-18-2017 06:48 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #37
RE: Could really use some help
Hello and welcome!
G16kc (8v) or G16KV (16valve, 2 door, or 4 doors, 4wd or 2wd? ) use signature so all readers no not have to read all pages to find what drive train is there. post 6 8v. ok.

still doing same thing, please tell all the car (engine) does good and bad. under all conditions of hot and cold, ,idle speeds hot, driving, flat out, up hills and all that. all evidence matters, tell them all please. the good the bad and the ugly tells what's up.

its and old car. and was hacked, so maybe there are other hacks there, as is common, on old OBD1 cars, most folks any many mechanics cant understand.
OBD1 is long forgetting now,, very very few cars run like this now, ever seen and old toyota this old running perfect , not really.
it can be fixed, above is REALITIES of life, on all old cars.
why not start over, 92 tracker. it has a 5 speed .
8v valve engines.
what ECU is there,? 56B30? what/ matters too. what there, i can make a list, need one? a linear, accurate and logical list. in car work its called basics.
CAT still there.
EGR still there. all parts.
i can not see your car, and in seconds me seeing it see, 2 things, missing things, or super wrong part on car, or connected totally wrong.
no DTC codes? the ECU flashes code 12 running, after hot run , still running, not key'd off> use the jumper.
back. now
is engine compression good.? 160PSI wide open throttle? its and old engine, why not see it is ok, and not going to get worse soon. all old cars its best to start here.
then check spark timing, using the freeze jumper,
the ECU can go to limphome mode, so is MPG 15mpg or near 30mpg? limp = 15.
fuel pressure at spec.
Cat converter not melted, ,each line here is test and requisite tool. in this case a vacuum tool checks it this easy
fuel injector clogged. (from bad fuel, or hotwiring it, it can be damaged easy, it is a 1ohm coil there, and if you hot wire it and it gets hot, its will be damaged, so very easy, (ohms law, I= E/R or 12/1 , or 12amps, flows, hot wired, or 144watts and it burns to a crisp, that tiny coil. inside the injector or is INJURED, ever seen copper wire burn, the insulation off, its called magnet wire, and can be good, bad or DAMAGED, if damaged it can burn up the 10 ECU, put in. This is why we never hot wire any injector ever. or risk that folly above endlessly.
vacuum lines leaking will mess up the Map or cause excessive idle speeds,, hot RPM 800 RPM or some other wrong RPM.

this ECU , the dome fuse PULLED for 1min, erases all stored, DTC error,s.
so you had 2 DTC error before, my guess is due to pulling sensors key on, so pull the dome fuse but back and, drive 20miles and see if the codes come back , these steps here, same even on a new car, ! erasing errors.

We can also test each sensor on the car.
the ECU EFI has sensors that all work as team, if not it will not inject right at all.
that is what EFI is, electronic (calculated) injectors, using digital brain and simple analog sensors.

do not pull sensors running,
this only puts the ECU in limphome mode, and is not good for the engine or CAT, limphome ,
it retards spark (sucks fuel )
no idle controls (so forget posting idle in this mode, there IS NONE)
injections go huge rich, and mPG is like 15mpg/ HORRID, like some huge CHEVY Blazer sucking fuel with a V8, horrid fuel usage. in this mode.
best is to drive with the paper clip jumper in the DLC jack , with code12 (good) flashing then driver it, flog it hot. and then see if the codes change while driving, diagmode is safe to use keyon, idling and DRIVING, do so, to see problems.

that is all for now. do the tests?



(10-18-2017 04:50 AM)gc73 Wrote:  Been awhile since ive posted but still having same issue of poor rough running and lack of power and hesitation.

I sent my computer in to be repaired and it was reported to me that it had a bad injector circuit. thought great this was the problem will work good now. Nope. still doing same thing. i also ran 2 new wires to the injector like you suggested. This also did not help. The rig will run now with out the "hack wire" so we have made some progress. Could that hack wire have screwed up the injector itself?

any help is much appreciated.

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10-18-2017, 05:26 AM
Post: #38
RE: Could really use some help
Correct, its a 92 Tracker with 5 speed. Not sure how to specify which ECU it has.
Yes it still has the CAT and EGR and all parts.
No DTC Codes were showing up last time i flashed it but can try it again. I need to get ECU mounted back in its normal spot and hooked back up using orignal wires and take it for drive to get it warm and then check that. Could you Refresh my memory on the process of using the jumper to check that?

I have not seen anything else blatant and obviously missing or "hacked" out side of that 1 wire.

[/color]Thanks for help again!!!
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10-18-2017, 07:02 AM
Post: #39
RE: Could really use some help
the ECU has tag,
on that tag it shows, a p/n , this p/n matches your engine. as seen in my TAG slide show , vast tags.

http://www.fixkick.com/specs/Body-TAGS/h...ge_32.html

on my web site type DLC in the search box its not flashing is the diagnostic mode, jumper. there is no flash ROMs in this car.ah you mean the Flash codes, called DTC.
Diagnostic trouble codes. DTC in the same box works too.

http://www.fixkick.com/CEL/DLC/DiagJump.html

you have the 4 pin or 6 pin DLC. one or the other

driver with the jumper in place, and see of DTC POP
if the CEL will not flash the nag switch is in the WRONG position.

12s good, all others bad.
in 1996+, no codes is good, and any code is bad.
my guess 56b30 (ECU) 30 means M/T.
the prefix means ECU. all are that.33920- dash

tell how the car drives, hot and old, flat and hills.
and MPG is it sucking fuel bad?
MPG tells the biggest tale.

when I put a new belt in engine Cam
i do compression test, to see if the low compression was cured. (the belt service also does lash check if skipped at 60k then 120k miles up, then the valve burn up, now 2 problems.see?
do not skip any steps in the 60k mile service page, (full tuneup) the check spark timing, did know many dumb shops see spark timing way off then change it and later find the cam belt slipped
and then wonder why the sparks time wrong>? again. the cam drives the distributor .
after all , old cars can have 2 problems or 3, mine all had 10 or more, all ignored by prev. owners, but I expect that , always.

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10-18-2017, 12:20 PM
Post: #40
RE: Could really use some help
I will check the tag on the ECU

I do not show a CEL light on but will drive it with the jumper in place and see what i get. Last time I stepped through the process it showed normal

The car runs very rough especially when cold. Once it warms up it is better but still poorly. Hesitates and pumping the throttle seems to help.
Not much power going up hills but not a lot at any time. Likes high rpm's and seems to run pretty well at 3k or over. under it hesitates alot and will bog if you dont pump the throttle.
The MPG has to be horrible. If i reset the trip i can maybe go 200 miles at most on a tank. it smells very gassy like its running rich.
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