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Could really use some help
11-04-2016, 02:32 AM (This post was last modified: 10-18-2017 06:41 AM by fixkick.)
Post: #1
Could really use some help
hey guys,

kinda new to a '92 tracker. it has a 5 speed MT. Got it a couple weeks ago to use as a hunting/chore rig. first got it and it was running terribly seemed like it was getting NO fuel. so went through whole process of servicing it including oil change, air filter, plugs wires, fuel filter, dropped fuel tank, IAT sensor, EGR clean out, and new timing belt. still is not running well at all. runs much better when it gets fully warmed up though. It bogs really bad when accelerating and by pushing in clutch and reving it up you can get rpm's up high enough to get down the road. sometimes worse than others. Also seems to run much better at high rpms. doesnt seem to have much power even when running decent at WOT in any gear. can barely break tires loose on gravel in first alot of time. when its cold, it wont stay idling unless you give it a little throttle. when it does get warm it will somewhat idle but seems to idle high 1k+ and bounces around alot. sometime it will idle consistently at 1k. starting always takes quite a few cranks and giving a little throttle seems to help. Also seems to be running very rich. even after set a few days and pull the IAT sensor reeks terrible of gas.

I would really appreciate any suggestions. I have read quite a few trouble shooting guides and so forth on kickfix but am at a loss right now

Thanks all!!

Gabe
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11-04-2016, 04:05 AM
Post: #2
RE: Could really use some help
(11-04-2016 02:32 AM)gc73 Wrote:  hey guys,

WELCOME !!!!
which engine, ? 8v or 16v.
does the CEL lamp glow, keyon, then go out running, it must do both.?
yes, its flooding and running rich. if in limphome mode, it will food. in most cases.

if 16v is the mAF clean? (keep spray back about 6 inches, no closer)
when it starts, does water temp reach and hold 180f or more, hand to top rad hose flies off, ouch, is perfect temp, if less bad, 150f horrid bad.
if 8v is the MAP sensor, port clean (nipples) and hose to it good, sucks air, if pulled for 1sec. and no cracks in hose, or clogged.

kinda new to a '92 tracker. it has a 5 speed MT. Got it a couple weeks ago to use as a hunting/chore rig. first got it and it was running terribly seemed like it was getting now fuel. so went through whole process of servicing it including oil change, air filter, plugs wires, fuel filter, dropped fuel tank, IAT sensor, EGR clean out, and new timing belt. still is not running well at all. runs much better when it gets fully warmed up though. It bogs really bad when accelerating and by pushing in clutch and reving it up you can get rpm's up high enough to get down the road. sometimes worse than others. Also seems to run much better at high rpms. doesnt seem to have much power even when running decent at WOT in any gear. can barley break tires loose on gravel in first alot of time. whens its cold it wont stay idling unelss you give it a little throttle. when it does get warm it will somewhat idle but seems to idle high 1k+ and bounces around alot. sometime it will idle consistently at 1k. starting always takes quite a few cranks and giving a little throttle seems to help. Also seems to be running very rich. even after set a few days and pull the IAT sensor reeks terrible of gas.

I would really appreciate any suggestions. I have read quite a few trouble shooting guides and so forth on kickfix but am at a loss right now

Thanks all!!

Gabe

http://fixkick.com/
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11-04-2016, 04:46 AM
Post: #3
RE: Could really use some help
The CEL light does come on with the key and go out when it is running. I know when I unplugged my IAT the CEL Light would come one. I have also jacked around with the NAG switch behind the speaker on driver side. when you slide it 1 way the CEL light is always on and the other direction CEL is off (until unplug IAT sensor). It may be in limphome mod but how do you know?

It is an 8V I believe. and i checked out the MAP sensor and the line to it seems good with no cracks and has good vac. I have not cleaned the nipple. what is the best procedure to do that?

Thanks for the help!!
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11-04-2016, 11:47 AM
Post: #4
RE: Could really use some help
ok 8v engine top , black steel , with 1 injector in the throttle body , that works totally different than the MPI engine,
so if you insert the diagnostic jumper in the DLC connnector next to the battery,does it flash 12's (means im kinda happy, the ECU)
it must flash 12s or something or the ecu is sick (bad caps disease)
Engine coolant get fully hot?
check fuel pressure>? at the test port on the banjo fitting of fuel filter, its fuel pressure test port, 60psi bad, 30 good. (ball park)
34-41psi, is spec.


(11-04-2016 04:46 AM)gc73 Wrote:  The CEL light does come on with the key and go out when it is running. I know when I unplugged my IAT the CEL Light would come one. I have also jacked around with the NAG switch behind the speaker on driver side. when you slide it 1 way the CEL light is always on and the other direction CEL is off (until unplug IAT sensor). It may be in limphome mod but how do you know?

It is an 8V I believe. and i checked out the MAP sensor and the line to it seems good with no cracks and has good vac. I have not cleaned the nipple. what is the best procedure to do that?

Thanks for the help!!

http://fixkick.com/
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11-04-2016, 10:14 PM
Post: #5
RE: Could really use some help
I remove all nag switches, to avoid the complex answers, and usage.(confusion, etc)
the nag switch is miles timer, and is 100% useless in 2016, it was for the long ago GONE, leaded fuel.
the NAG lamp comes on ,you go to suzuki and they check the cars CAT for Lead damage.
http://www.fixkick.com/CEL/NAG-Lamp.html
If you slide the switch and the CEL lamp comes on, that means it's in NAG mode (maybe) then slide so CEL lamp is off. means CEL is off.
Keep in mind key on, engine off the CEL glows this is called CEL lamp test mode.
the lamp is shared with the timer and the ECU CEL function. (a pain yes)
i unplug the 3wire 4 pin nag wires, on rear of Speedo and this pain ends. and now only CEL works forever.
but you can live with it, sure,
just insert the diagnostic jumper, and the CEL flashes, if not move the NAG switch to the other side and now the CEL must flash.
the jumper is here. most 8v cars have the 4 pin connector next to the battery.
http://www.fixkick.com/CEL/DLC/DiagJump.html
see this page, there is a 4 pin conn. and 6pin, you have one or the other for sure.
the stock car has a cover over it a rubber cap, for protecting its 4 or 6 pins
you then use paper clip, (shinny metal never plastic covered or colored) forming a metal jumper wire clip and short the 2 pins , as seen in the link above.
12 codes are good.
if not 12s, the ECU can be limphome mode, it must flash 12s ,12s are a GOAL.

most early 90s cars have have this DLC connector jumper. and flash codes, until USA laws, kicked in in 1996. (1998 in canada)
The ECU reports all sensors, that are dead. that is about all it can do. for diagnosis, but we look first. never ignore the CEL.
IT will also report a weak/dead EGR system.




(11-04-2016 11:47 AM)fixkick Wrote:  ok 8v engine top , black steel , with 1 injector in the throttle body , that works totally different than the MPI engine,
so if you insert the diagnostic jumper in the DLC connnector next to the battery,does it flash 12's (means im kinda happy, the ECU)
it must flash 12s or something or the ecu is sick (bad caps disease)
Engine coolant get fully hot?
check fuel pressure>? at the test port on the banjo fitting of fuel filter, its fuel pressure test port, 60psi bad, 30 good. (ball park)
34-41psi, is spec.


(11-04-2016 04:46 AM)gc73 Wrote:  The CEL light does come on with the key and go out when it is running. I know when I unplugged my IAT the CEL Light would come one. I have also jacked around with the NAG switch behind the speaker on driver side. when you slide it 1 way the CEL light is always on and the other direction CEL is off (until unplug IAT sensor). It may be in limphome mod but how do you know?

It is an 8V I believe. and i checked out the MAP sensor and the line to it seems good with no cracks and has good vac. I have not cleaned the nipple. what is the best procedure to do that?

Thanks for the help!!

http://fixkick.com/
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11-04-2016, 10:30 PM
Post: #6
RE: Could really use some help
Back ground information::::
the car has a a 8 Valve G16a TBI engine, using a TBI based EFI single injector
the ECU does all injection calculations,
the ECU uses sensors to inject,
if fuel pressure is at spec, then the ecu has a chance of injecting properly.
it does that with sensors. (map,ECT,IAT,O2,)
This year ECU can not detect weak sensors, only totally dead ones.
Back then shop has scan tool called a tech1, (long gone and worn out dead) and this scanner can in fact read near live sensor data.
you have no such tool, nor I, and we must use meters to check sensors.
The injector must not leak.
The fuel pressure is found to be 50 to 60psi ,may be a fuel return line pinched or crushes in an offroad, hazard. etc.
The ECU is totally stupid in this regard, if fuel pressure is wrong the ECU just trusts it and injects wrong. this is how all suzuki work until late 2000's

if you have a DMM meter, most the tests are easy.
if not , humans can not measure volts/ohm/amps, temperatures , pressures, at all. It does take tools to fix cars, meaning simple gauges and meters.
Even the o2 sensors this old on the manifold are most times seen as shot (dead), take it out. and most look after 20 + years, look like wreck. totally wrecked.....(normal action so long)
if O2 is dead, and reads 0v all times the ECU goes full rich. then misfires and sucks fuel like crazy. (low engine power too)

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11-04-2016, 10:31 PM (This post was last modified: 11-04-2016 10:32 PM by fixkick.)
Post: #7
RE: Could really use some help
the engine tops. (valve covers)
my ID PAGE

see the steel lid , that is 8v
see the alumininum lid that yells 16valves, that is 16v. G16b
[Image: 8v16v.JPG]

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11-06-2016, 05:02 AM
Post: #8
RE: Could really use some help
I flashed the ECU and it would blink 1 time then 4 times and it would also flash twice then 3 times. Is the DTC code 14 and 23?
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11-06-2016, 05:20 AM
Post: #9
RE: Could really use some help
Thaaa DAaaaah
BINGO, limphome. rears its ugly head.
see my dtc page.
14 means, ECT sensors wires fell off, 1 or both.
23 means,. IAT seensor wires fell off. 1 or both.
http://www.fixkick.com/ECU/DTC-errors/DTC-jtgh.html

pull the dome fuse wait say 2 minutes, the clears the ECU memory of all errors stored. (old dtcs)
then put the fuse back.
drive, if those codes return then they are real.

the ECT will read 300 ohms on a hot engine, does it, have a meter, DMM set to ohms resistance scale.. ($10 from, walmart works)
on a dead cold engine, overnight the IAT and ECT both read same ohms.
say 1000. (depends on overnight average temps)
these tests are with connectors unplugged to the sensor you are checking.
say engine is hot?, 180f is normal, the ECT reads unplugged 300 ohms, if not, the ECU will not be happy.

the front sender with 1 wire has noting to do with ECU. its for the dash gauge water temp./

cheers and good luck.

(11-06-2016 05:02 AM)gc73 Wrote:  I flashed the ECU and it would blink 1 time then 4 times and it would also flash twice then 3 times. Is the DTC code 14 and 23?

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11-08-2016, 04:31 AM
Post: #10
RE: Could really use some help
I flashed the ECU and drove it. Did not seem to fix the issue. idles better but still high at around 1200 even warm. After got back from the drive flash the ECU again and it shows code 12. Still bogging horribly and has poor power... what should i check next?
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