+- Car Repair Forum (https://fixkick.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Suzuki (https://fixkick.com/forum/forum-suzuki)
+--- Forum: Sidekick/Tracker (https://fixkick.com/forum/forum-sidekick-tracker)
+--- Thread: Greetings..and..Transmission (/thread-greetings-and-transmission)
RE: Greetings..and..Transmission - GeoHacker - 09-02-2015
So I build the stupid pull-press, cool the shaft in the fridge, heat the bearing in the oven a little, drop it onto the shaft in preparation for pressing, thinking "It'll stop".
Well the dang thing dropped down into place without a bit of effort, and then before i could set the gap, it cooled and locked.
So basically, I'm back to the next to nothing gap I had in the first place. I measured the distance between the race and the ball bearing hole before removing, and that gap is the same, not more, so back to same.
I don't know if that's horrible or will work, or what. Seeing how that locked washer doesn't roll against the race on either side, I'd think it should be alright, hopefully.
Anyhow, good news is, if you heat the bearing, and cool the shaft in the refrigerator, you don't need a press. Bad news is, if you aren't ready, you don't get to set a gap perfectly.
Am letting it all warm/cool back to room temperature, see what's worse or not. I guess only way to fix this if it is a big problem is to pull the bearing, buy a new one and have the feeler gage in place already next time.
????
Noting the fact there are faint score marks on the shaft from the wear over the years (circular at each begin and end of a bearing or washer)..showing all the original locations as to edges and where they lived...
if placing the second ball-locked washer back in place next to the main bearing, that sure looks to live at the exact same place…life might be OK.
If worry got me as far as effort, this thing would be done and I'd have new paint all over too.
rc
There's actually a 0.01 gap there now between the race and that inner washer I was worried about.
So there's actually a little more than there was before (before was .002 I think, barely nothing).
Should be good for continued re-assembly.
{{{ Phew }}}
Next time, only 150 degrees, and gap gage in place first.
RE: Greetings..and..Transmission - fixkick - 09-02-2015
those cooling methods are very good.
the gap is set pressing to a feeler gage, at the gap point, press just till kisses.
my data came from, 2 untouched transmission, but the factory tool to do this is a secret held by suz.
.010" thou seems ok, its just for preventing hot lockup. as all parts expand....
i think 10 thou is ok, on the lower amount. im sure its a range, really.... secret.
RE: Greetings..and..Transmission - GeoHacker - 09-05-2015
(09-02-2015, 10:40 PM)fixkick Wrote: .010" thou seems ok, its just for preventing hot lockup. as all parts expand....
i think 10 thou is ok, on the lower amount. im sure its a range, really.... secret.
Thanks. Hope is a range, should be given the age.
Is it likely I got a bad bearing in my kit? It's NSK 6035…goes on the end next to 25 tooth 5th gear main shaft and washer. (#11 rear bearing on one chart)
Seems less tight than one would think being brand new. The center up and down play is not bad, but the interior race side to side seems more than you'd think (and is a little more than the old that way).
Probably just paranoid. With oil in it, probably won't do that, be like the original. Has the ring and slot on it, but doesn't require it (have 2 in my kit like that).
Only other holdup, assuming I put back in the old 5th gear big'un with the spline slop, is that somehow somewhere the smallest circlip on countershaft went missing during the down time (#32 on Sidekick chart).
Going to have to order one from GM parts. Price is not bad, but the shipping is goofy high. ($2.66 part +$9.95 shipping). Main shaft middling is done otherwise, except for 6305 press on.
rc
RE: Greetings..and..Transmission - GeoHacker - 09-05-2015
(09-05-2015, 03:05 PM)GeoHacker Wrote: Is it likely I got a bad bearing in my kit? It's NSK 6035…goes on the end next to 25 tooth 5th gear main shaft and washer. (#11 rear bearing on one chart)
Seems less tight than one would think being brand new. The center up and down play is not bad, but the interior race side to side seems more than you'd think (and is a little more than the old that way).
Not sure I am paranoid…there are various brown discolorations inside the rim of this thing, and a deep blue spot on the inner side of the outside race (one side only).
I don't know if that is a manufacturing artifact or what. Wonder if I should get a different bearing to be safe. This thing shake like a rattle if you shake it side to side (and is supposed to be new). I just find it worrisome that is has more side to side motion than the one that's been in there 20 years.
rc
RE: Greetings..and..Transmission - fixkick - 09-06-2015
ball bearings. right? ah #11 (the tail shaft BALL bearing, )
nsk makes good parts, if not a counterfeited and there is no lack of that. not now. in china. (world class winners...in this illegal practices)
the bearing must not be loose. nor have funny colors... ball bearings do have clearances, and is published in the NSK catalog. (data sheets)
its too small to feel,
and all bearings are sold by grade. (cheap bearings can be bought, that have no business in any car)
imagine a huge productions setup, at the end of the line they are graded by (loose is toy bearings, and then class 10 bearings best)
just like intel microprocessors.. fast more expensive, but if cashe bits are bad, it's a Celeron...
the higher class (grade) bearing have the high RPM ratings...
id get a new Timken bearing.
beast in world and best tool steel too... no accident that.
that bearing is bad. its junk,
must be customer return , (what's there who knows?)
or china clone BS ! china has 600 bearing makers, most are trash, only few are ISO9000 rated. (but I can not spell or speak the names,,, my problem...)
buy the timken here in USA>
then see and feel that quality.
its will look prefect, no funny colors... or loose.
each top bearing maker has a counterfeit page. (no exceptions,...)
showing all this horror,.
even illegally stamping it with top makers name. not theirs.
in some cases the box , even is illegal. but looks like kids made box, and painted it in grade school. looks cheap. and IS.
RE: Greetings..and..Transmission - GeoHacker - 09-09-2015
(09-06-2015, 12:00 AM)fixkick Wrote: ball bearings. right? ah #11 (the tail shaft BALL bearing, )
nsk makes good parts, if not a counterfeited and there is no lack of that. not now. in china. (world class winners...in this illegal practices)
id get a new Timken bearing.
each top bearing maker has a counterfeit page. (no exceptions,...)
showing all this horror,.
even illegally stamping it with top makers name. not theirs.
in some cases the box , even is illegal. but looks like kids made box, and painted it in grade school. looks cheap. and IS.
I agree, it's got to be junk. These people don't realize they put lives at risk with bogus parts…be they in airplanes, cars, or anything.
Hope my other bearing is ok, also NSK. The super loose one does seem like a customer return or it was altered or something? Hit on, or heated by somebody? it otherwise seems milled too wide inside that outer track…so it allows the balls to move a half mm to the side or other, or more.
I couldn't locate a Timken of this type, so I got a Nachi Japan, same as sold by Petroworks for their kits and a couple in my kit. (from VXB bearing, hope it's ok, they say they are an official supplier of Nachi Japan).
I really don't look forward to having to do this ever again. I only need another 20K miles, and by then I'm sure that something else will be the problem, if it starts up after all this time sitting. And I can remember what bolts go where.
rc
RE: Greetings..and..Transmission - fixkick - 09-10-2015
so true , imagine wheel bearing seizing at the wrong moment,,, omg.... bad. (same with tails shaft bearings. (all cluster and counter shaft bearings)
id look at all NSK marks with a critical eye, i thing NSK has a logo check pages. lets see, (how to identify NSK counterfeits)
Nachi and Koyo are both good, not counterfeited...
oh yes, and remembering all the bolts. i do feel that pain,, been there, , and then had to do length checks to sort it.
trusted source, (not ebay , LOL)
packing on all bearings look same, look non hacked? if the package colors look like kids did it , they did.
loose? fit, (lots of ways)
milling looks crude?
logo's , missing, wrong place or look poor, its not real , as are other marks that make no sense, like china chicken feet marks,etc.
old bearings have stamped marks, NSK.
new ones are laser etched, and very perfect and clear (type faces) super clear.
here is the extreme that NSK goes to , to stop this. 2d laser marks.
http://www.acorn-ind.co.uk/insight/Unique-2D-Laser-Code-Provides-Traceability-For-NSK-Super-Precision-Bearings/
10,000% increase in counterfeits, in last 20 years. stated at , World Bearing Association (WBA)
its real and a real PITA, all this....
id tell seller he , shipped junk... get a refund. you will get. fast.
use refund to buy real bearings.
each bearing maker has a cross reference page.
you old bearings were koyo, (mine were) but i think you said, your are 2nd rebuilder. if true the koyo, the numbers are on these sides of old koyo's
and can be crossed easy
when i got mine all boxes of bearings were legit. i checked them very carefully
and each bearing was packed in grease and wrapped, and all the same way.
if not, I would have rejected any bearing that looks like it did not come from the factory to me....
it cuts both ways!
some distributors make claims of counterfeit that are not true.. (ending competition there)
dirty deals.
and price fixing....
this photos is of man cutting a good bearing
http://bearingcode.com/Images/140905_01.jpg
it was later, traced to a real FAG bearing plant. but the news media never checked that out.
RE: Greetings..and..Transmission - GeoHacker - 09-10-2015
(09-10-2015, 12:18 AM)fixkick Wrote: id look at all NSK marks with a critical eye
oh yes, and remembering all the bolts. i do feel that pain,, been there, , and then had to do length checks to sort it.
When I'm setting the transmission assembly back in place, I'll probably need the help of yourself and the others here to know what's what for some of the bolts.
Thanks for the interesting information and perspectives.
My removed bearings were NTN Japan, several at least.
The suspect counterfeit NSK 6305 (for output shaft area) has two stamps on it, decent quality, "NSK", and "6305N" only. While the stamp is fine, the NSK letters looks mildly distorted, skewed a little. Perhaps I'm not imagining that.
The one I pulled off in that position was stamped NTN, Japan TU, and 6305.
The box for the suspect NSK looks legit, nice actually, says USA on the sticker. 6305NRC3 to one side, and a bar code.
The new one for the input shaft is also an NSK, makes me worry a bit being the input shaft location, but has "Japan" stamped on it, unlike the suspect one, which has no country stamp. My main center bearing is a Nachi Japan. The countershaft bearings are all Nachi's.
Since I bought the trans rebuild bearing kit a long time back, seller probably won't give me a refund on that but I'll write them anyway and whine.
rc
___
" Loose-y, you cannot go on the show."
RE: Greetings..and..Transmission - fixkick - 09-10-2015
I feel the pain of that, its no fun, fighting bad new parts. a place nobody deserves.
that funny bearing is either used or counterfeit.
the problem is that NSK changed styles of marking , in time.... their web site , fails to show the history, SADLY,, old stamping and new laser marks....sad...
after all , what if bearing was NOS, new old stock.???
NSK LTD. Fukushima Plant
this is where the bearings are made, if marked JAPAN.
i suspect a used bearing, a customer return and the original shipped bearing lost.
RE: Greetings..and..Transmission - GeoHacker - 09-12-2015
"i suspect a used bearing, a customer return and the original shipped bearing lost."
That's what I am thinking, or…somebody bought a new one at the seller's shop or something, returned this old one cleaned up, and passed it off as unused, then nobody checked'
It just looks used, and it rolls like used, as in loose, and noisy. The new Nachi is smooth rolling as can be (lovely feeling is that).
I wrote NSK corporate, and they want me to send them some pictures so they can decide what's going on, which I will do.
In other news, just sold an old outboard motor so now have enough money to complete this job. Much enthused.
My engine has been sitting an awful long time at this point…should I pour some oil in the cylinders to help it out until I get it started, and for when I do start it?
r