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+--- Thread: 1989 suzuki sidekick wont stay running (/thread-1989-suzuki-sidekick-wont-stay-running)
1989 suzuki sidekick wont stay running - Shaarc5 - 02-25-2021
This is a 89 suzuki sidekick 1.6 8v tbi.
Hello, so I posted on here for help with my sidekick a few years ago when I couldn’t get it to start after a motor rebuild. Ending up figuring out my ignition timing was 180 off. It would start now but was running very bad, wasn’t drivable. So I sent my computer off to be rebuilt/capacitors replaced. Got it back and it ran the same.
I decided to take it to a “shop” to be fixed and it was there for 2 years with them not figuring anything out. I recently had it towed home and starting to go through things again but feel im running out of things to check.
I went back through my list of everything after getting the suzuki back home and all checks good.
Here is my original post and all the things I’ve checked.
<< I have got a 89 suzuki sidekick with a crank but no start condition. I can’t figure out what the issue is, any help and advice on what to do next. Thanks for looking and any ideas you guys have.
What I’ve done trying to diagnose the problem and info on it.
1. Has spark on all plugs- good size but orange??
2. Coil has the same looking spark coming out of it- orange good size
3. Has good compression. 180-200 all cylinders
4. All fuses are good, all grounds are good/cleaned.
5. Checked for codes, got 12-12-12 good
6. Checked timing belt and dizzy, dead on. My cam can only install one way, cam titty 12 o clock, crank tdc #1
Other checks I’ve done.
1. Checked coil primary- 1.5 ohms about. Secondary about 12k ohms. Good
2. Checked signal generator resistance inside dizzy- 130-190 ohms. Good
3. Checked for play in dizzy, none.
4. Checked the vr gap inside dizzy, .008-.016. good
5. Checked each plug wires resistance about 5k per ft. Good
6. Checked injector pulse while cranking. Good
7. Unplugged injector, made sure plugs were still clean and not flooded. Sprayed starting fluid while cranking. No start.
8. Tested/adjusted the tps sensor, 30 ohms at idle and about 1.v good
9. Went through everthing again, timing, fuses, grounds. Visually checking wires, connections anything I can see. I’m lost and confused please help!”>>
So now that I got it back she will crank and startup but immediately dies. Giving full throttle will sometimes barely keep it running about 700rpm but wont go above that. Unhooking the injector and adding starting fluid will keep it running barely. Sounds really rough and I have to spray alot. One thing I noticed is my dome/tail fuse keeps blowing. This started happening now that I’ve got it back from shop.
Ive got fuel, spark, compression, timing good. What could cause it not run?
Any ideas or things I can check are much appreciated
RE: 1989 suzuki sidekick wont stay running - fixkick - 02-25-2021
(02-25-2021, 06:33 AM)Shaarc5 Wrote: This is a 89 suzuki sidekick 1.6 8v tbi.seems engine is Ok
Hello, so I posted on here for help with my sidekick a few years ago when I couldn’t get it to start after a motor rebuild. Ending up figuring out my ignition timing was 180 off. It would start now but was running very bad, wasn’t drivable. So I sent my computer off to be rebuilt/capacitors replaced. Got it back and it ran the same.
I decided to take it to a “shop” to be fixed and it was there for 2 years with them not figuring anything out. I recently had it towed home and starting to go through things again but feel im running out of things to check.
I went back through my list of everything after getting the suzuki back home and all checks good.
Here is my original post and all the things I’ve checked.
<< I have got a 89 suzuki sidekick with a crank but no start condition. I can’t figure out what the issue is, any help and advice on what to do next. Thanks for looking and any ideas you guys have.
What I’ve done trying to diagnose the problem and info on it.
1. Has spark on all plugs- good size but orange??
2. Coil has the same looking spark coming out of it- orange good size
3. Has good compression. 180-200 all cylinders
4. All fuses are good, all grounds are good/cleaned.
5. Checked for codes, got 12-12-12 good
6. Checked timing belt and dizzy, dead on. My cam can only install one way, cam titty 12 o clock, crank tdc #1
Other checks I’ve done.
1. Checked coil primary- 1.5 ohms about. Secondary about 12k ohms. Good
2. Checked signal generator resistance inside dizzy- 130-190 ohms. Good
3. Checked for play in dizzy, none.
4. Checked the vr gap inside dizzy, .008-.016. good
5. Checked each plug wires resistance about 5k per ft. Good
6. Checked injector pulse while cranking. Good
7. Unplugged injector, made sure plugs were still clean and not flooded. Sprayed starting fluid while cranking. No start.
8. Tested/adjusted the tps sensor, 30 ohms at idle and about 1.v good
9. Went through everthing again, timing, fuses, grounds. Visually checking wires, connections anything I can see. I’m lost and confused please help!”>>
So now that I got it back she will crank and startup but immediately dies. Giving full throttle will sometimes barely keep it running about 700rpm but wont go above that. Unhooking the injector and adding starting fluid will keep it running barely. Sounds really rough and I have to spray alot. One thing I noticed is my dome/tail fuse keeps blowing. This started happening now that I’ve got it back from shop.
Ive got fuel, spark, compression, timing good. What could cause it not run?
Any ideas or things I can check are much appreciated
and fuel is ok, due to failing, with test fuel. proving hard that spark dies
a bad spark coil or distrib ! bingo.
if you used a timing light, to say spark #1 wire, and you see spark die, that way, then spark is bad, and you did say. spark looks odd and orange.
and the ECU does not make spark on this engine ever !, only the distrib does that (+ coil), all by itself.
so the distrib is bad. many are, this old. some love love to fail hot too.
bad distrib,. bad wires to it all, or bad spark coil.
TEST FUEL FAILS, SO SPARK IS BAD, OR NO AIR TO INDUCTION, USE 5% THROTTLE TO SAVE A STALL, CALLED HOT RIGHT FOOTING IT? i BET FOOT CAN NOT SAVE ANYTHING.
wow 2 years for mech to not learn spark fails., I can not believe him, SORRY FOR YOUR GRIEF !!!!!!
RE: 1989 suzuki sidekick wont stay running - fixkick - 02-25-2021
ENGINE IS OK.
What can stop engine from running.
spark fails, that VR thing and ignitor next to it love to fail. a bad distrib and or bad spark coil, that cuts out.
if spark fails ECU cuts fuel,. by law and no fires.
ECU does not make spark only is monitored by ECU to cut fuel and not catch fire,
CAT melted and fails vacuum tests. (acts backwards the vacuum gauge)
EGR stuck wide open , closed it and defeat it next with pulled vacuum line.
IAC dead, not letting air in to the engine, only via DP but DP only lasts for 15seconds or less, so IAC in the base of TB is bad. if no air for starting nor air for idling cold.
DP means dash pot rear left end of TB (throttle body)
but any person with a fast right foot can emulate IAC, to add air by foot and not need any iAC at all. proving lack of idle air supply. and you said fails.(as a test)
dome fuse blow is usually the dome switch up high bad, shorting. seen them do that.
the dome fuse blown means the ECU can not hold DTC errors. (this can hide real errors like that, and, like error code 41, or 42 error (DTC blink)/.
Id be testing spark much better, to make sure it is not weak or going dead randomly or only cold or some other way.
I even tape my spark strobe light ON switch with duct tape (duct tape magic again) and now Lamp is flashing, try on all 4 spark wires not just 1.
and run the engine, see if one wire drops out spark or all do.
spark gap is 0.028 " not as out of the box 0.045": dead wrong. NO FUNNY spark plugs, just 1J plugs, no 2J no 3J or 4J or worse yet surface fire plugs like my boat engine has.
use cheap plugs, on old engine, they foul before that wear out. NGK base line simple plugs. (sure of 1J platinum ok sure but not necessary)
I still thing it is spark. weak or crazy intermittent.
so it will never ever just idle all by it self... never, ?? not driveable sure, but what does it do, same thing every time started or is it random this problem.?>??
RE: 1989 suzuki sidekick wont stay running - Shaarc5 - 02-26-2021
First off, thankyou for the replys.
Okay so I did the recommend stuff/tests today. I temporarily un plugged the dome light switch and that stopped the fuse from blowing. So I have a good fuse in there now and power.
Okay So I hooked up the timing
light to #1 wire and I can see constant flashing while cranking. I am also able to start it and keep it running now, by slightly feathering the throttle. So I feathered it to keep it running while I checked ignition timing on crank pulley. It looked good. I also ran the timing light on each spark plug wire while running and they all flashed. I took each plug out and ground it on motor to visually see spark jump and they all looked okay spark size. Color was Orange/yellow a little blue.
While keeping motor running I pressed in on the EGR valve and could hear the motor trying to bog down even more. Mentioned possibly plugged cat, so I removed my O2 sensor off the manifold and started it but it ran the same. I am using New, well two year old plugs from my rebuild that are NGK BPR5ES gapped at .028”.
With my diagnostic fuse in im still getting code 12. I do have a service manual. Fuel pressure was last checked before it went to the shop and it was in spec.
Will start right up with a little throttle feathering but wont idle and wants to bog down and die unless i keep it slightly feathering. Doesnt really want to go high rpms.
Now that I can keep it running with feathering throttle what could be some culprits or more stuff i can check?
RE: 1989 suzuki sidekick wont stay running - fixkick - 02-26-2021
(02-26-2021, 10:28 AM)Shaarc5 Wrote: First off, thankyou for the replys.
Okay so I did the recommend stuff/tests today. I temporarily un plugged the dome light switch and that stopped the fuse from blowing. So I have a good fuse in there now and power.
Okay So I hooked up the timing
light to #1 wire and I can see constant flashing while cranking. I am also able to start it and keep it running now, by slightly feathering the throttle. So I feathered it to keep it running while I checked ignition timing on crank pulley. It looked good. I also ran the timing light on each spark plug wire while running and they all flashed. I took each plug out and ground it on motor to visually see spark jump and they all looked okay spark size. Color was Orange/yellow a little blue.
While keeping motor running I pressed in on the EGR valve and could hear the motor trying to bog down even more. Mentioned possibly plugged cat, so I removed my O2 sensor off the manifold and started it but it ran the same. I am using New, well two year old plugs from my rebuild that are NGK BPR5ES gapped at .028”.
With my diagnostic fuse in im still getting code 12. I do have a service manual. Fuel pressure was last checked before it went to the shop and it was in spec.
Will start right up with a little throttle feathering but wont idle and wants to bog down and die unless i keep it slightly feathering. Doesnt really want to go high rpms.
Now that I can keep it running with feathering throttle what could be some culprits or more stuff i can check?
engine good. (compression ok, and I can only assume vacuum looks ok, not bouncing like mad)
spark seems good
no power
will not idle. (but will a bit hot footed but is limited)
not flooding. but shows lean, burn symptoms?
clean the injector, even have it pro cleaned. and flow tested?
so lacks fueling....
ECT bad? (shows hot readings for cold , coolant)
MAP bad. or hoses to it bad? (or even connected up wrong, that hose) it must see full plenum vacuum below TB. must at all times, any speed , any load.
map readings are here below. and is the prime sensor for fueling, + ECT.
https://fixkick.com/sensors/my-map.html
RE: 1989 suzuki sidekick wont stay running - fixkick - 02-27-2021
basics means one of 3 failed paths. (with odd exceptions , one being A/T with wrecked TC torque converter clutch inside) and melted cat, or stuck open EGR
seen EGR do this.
casing cracked, what this crack does is , not known as it can crack in so many ways inside and out. I block off the port to prove it is not bad. using solid gasket at base, no holes.
EGR sticks every mile driving or random, block it.
hoses hooked up wrong to EGR and gets vacuum when never it must. for sure at idle. no vacuum to EGR allowed, I block the EGR base with sold gasket to prove it is bad.
base gasket missing or cracked sucking air, but engine races super fast will fill power so is not your cause.
1:bad engine or with good compression cam lobes a wreck (they open sure but not by much) very rare this lobe deal. You cam is not timed wrong.
2: bad spark weak, intermittent or timing bad or the mech, advance is wreck, looking at it works best no springs missing there or fly weights rusted. !!!
on gen 1, 89/90 I take the distributor fully part to prove the mech advance is not a wreck and the vacuum adv too not sticking. and leakdown test pass on its diaphram.
3: bad fueling vast ways to fail. (ECU does all fueling and never does it do spark here)
best I can tell it is #3 . clogged injector (even 75% clogged is possible) see it. one guy here found that and the FPR was jerry rigged to higher fuel pressure. WOW hard to find.
sensors read wrong makes fuel inject wrong.
map if first , check keyon, idle voltage. (both must be near my page data )
O2 sensor stuck high, forcing lean condition. the 1989/90 ecu gives O2 more control that should be allowed, cured in 1996, unplug it gets you 0.45vdc and can hide the too lean or to rich conditions. (as test)
ECT reading hot for cold. (wrong ECT or bad)
one more trick
run with ECT unplugged, see if more power happens? this will force rich. (but sadly retards spark) so.... not definitive by much.
test all sensors carefully here.
for sure hot and cold. even use a heat gun, to me sure they do not fail hot, and go open ,dead or shorted.
one other test only shops can do is scope the injector wire pair, and is tricky one 8v. scope must not be grounded and both scope probes across the injector wire pair.
the Plus width correct tells you injector is clogged, or have low fuel pressure (yours is good PSI)
if Pulse width it too low, the ECU sensors are telling lies. same with too long pulse too rich.
RE: 1989 suzuki sidekick wont stay running - fixkick - 02-27-2021
did you look in the 8v air horn at the injector spray cone , not looking RATTY. (bad pattern)? link is video.
Lets talk Pulse widths
the MP4 quad injectors to this in photo 1.
HOT engine 800rpm
this is MPI but my 1991 TBI shows same PW. pulse wide same. 1.4ms same. (running) 8v)
this is and online (web) engine simulator, and very accurate, (plenty)\
the MPI failed like this....
1.8ms (.0018 seconds) calc'd and 1.4mS actual. his ECU was doing WRONG 4.5MS rich as a pig and bad China MAF caused, (pure trash MAF) and cured next .
the same kind of failure can be on 8v bad MAP sensor, or bad hoses or connected to wrong vacuum, ports.
or injector clogged.
https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/calcinjpulse.html
1.4mS hot.800.rpm 8valve
![[Image: 522_8v-inj.jpeg]](https://fixkick.com/forum/gallery/522_8v-inj.jpeg)
now what do I get on 91,8v , yours will be the same. hot and cold. if not SENSORS are wrong.
as you can see hot is lean and normal mix, called stoich.
cold is 3.5 and hot is 1.4
if yours is normal, then the injector is clogged up,
but if wrong , ID say map is failing, or ECT fibbing like a lawyer., at OJ';s trail)
the uses of a scope will tell you if the ECU is right or the Injector is dead (weak)
even with clogged injector the ECU will will still try to go to 5MA PW, pulse width, due to MAP going to near 0v.
this photo is off my scope, and 8v and hand drawn by me to make it easy to see all details, on one page.
see the chopper effect here, called injector cooling? The total time is delta T. fuel flows at 0.7m delay.
![[Image: TBI-pwm-wave1%20.jpg]](https://fixkick.com/INJECTORS/TBI-pwm-wave1%20.jpg)
the below is bench tested ECU with fake map sensor inputs. I can force any MAP reading I want. here. so is not on running real engine.
and last and best, the transverse test, this is scope probe directly across the 2 injector wires and scope ground busted from AC line, to not hurt my ECU.
the point here is seen correct wave forums.
the first 12v pulse wakes up the slow injector , about 1mS long , total is 1.3mS total, (0.7 mS is fuel flow time)
![[Image: INJ-red-to-yel-w1.jpg]](https://fixkick.com/INJECTORS/INJ-red-to-yel-w1.jpg)
https://fixkick.com/INJECTORS/TBI-pwm-wave1%20.jpg
RE: 1989 suzuki sidekick wont stay running - fixkick - 02-27-2021
the whole point of above is to see if ECU is working, and not bad input to it causing ECU to inject wrongly
if the injection pulse are good, the injector is clogged. (lean burn and no power)
that is the test. just that.
46year old scope, all solid state and still works like new. I have modern scopes too.
does not take expensive scopes, mine was $75 used
a scope that can not blow up with -40v back EMF coil kick back will work even one that is only 1mHZ rated.
what matter cars is safe for voltages. up to say 300vdc , like the noise seen on the AC clutch,. or injectors or coil spark primary + or minus lugs. (forget HV spark for now)
RE: 1989 suzuki sidekick wont stay running - fixkick - 02-27-2021
the map sensor can be tested , with engine not running first. keyon
the map uses power +5VdcRef from ECU to power it , 4.75 to 5.25vdc spec for power. so this is first test , +5vdc on power pin,
then pin gray green is output. (other wire black is ground)
using a hand vacuum pump/gauge and DMM meter for output pin, voltage, easy. using my chart.
key on is near 3.9vdc, this voltage is at 500ft altitude, by me, and my meters.
then start the engine or pump the hand vacuum to 19inches HG mercury reading. get 1.2vdc.
can do that with engine running too, 800rpm hot idle, (if the voltage can not rise there will be no power to drive any 8valve engine ( this is not the EGR MAP !!! seen on some 16v)
i made this for 3 kinds of gauges, bar (ROTW) and USA imperial HG. (ROTW means rest of the world)
Bar below is not any kind of weather barometer, it is for engines only tool.
I have 1000lbs of bricks in my trailer and had full power, from this car so , is at full 80HP.
![[Image: 523_map.jpeg]](https://fixkick.com/forum/gallery/523_map.jpeg)
RE: 1989 suzuki sidekick wont stay running - Shaarc5 - 03-02-2021
Thank you for the replys.
OK got the tests/recommended stuff done.
1. Motor vacuum looks good, steady and moves with rpm rise.
2. Burn symptoms, spark plugs are dry and not fowling.
3. I had injector pro clean/flow tested at injector shop before heading to the shop 2+ years ago.
4. Tested ECT, shows proper reading of 2.2 cold.
5. Tested map, it tested perfect per specs that are on your page. Has good vacuum to the map.
6. I am a manual transmission.
7. Putting vacuum on the EGR it fails to hold and leaks. So I blocked it off with the solid gasket and plugged the hose going to it.
8. Distributor mechanical and vacuum advance seems to move back-and-forth freely. Pulling vacuum on the vacuum advance and it failed, won’t hardly move with putting vacuum on it and leaks out. I read a bit on it and it seems to only adjust timing slightly and shouldn’t stop my motor from running?? I will fully disassemble the Dizzy to do an internal inspection as recommended.
9. I unplugged the O2 sensor as a test, didn’t change running condition. Is that the test? Just unplug the connector?
10. I unplugged ECT for test, didn’t change running condition.
11. Recommended to test sensors hot. I will run motor a bit to get warm and retest those sensors hot within a day or two.
12. I don’t have a scope but I would love to get one to add to my tools. I was looking at the Pico 2204a scope. Have any recommendations on a affordable scope? “ I would still have to learn to use”.
13. Looking in the airhorn at the injector spray cone, it looks good. Good pattern, no dribble, or anything weird.
14. My distributor is original, I have new NGK wires, cap, Rotor, and ignition coil.
15. Stated my primary resistance at Coil is out of spec. I have two, one old and one new I purchased a while ago. I tested again and this is what I got. The prime is 2.1 and 1.9. The secondary are 7.8 and 8.7. The book does state prime to be .72-.88 ohms and secondary to be 10.2-14. kilohms. Is this a problem? Specs seem to have changed since last tested not sure why other than it’s been 2+ years.
Things I’m going to do. Test sensors hot and take dizzy apart for inspection.
What else can I test or redo any tests a certain way? Thanks again for all the replys.