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Idle issue on an 89 sidekick 8v - Printable Version

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Idle issue on an 89 sidekick 8v - Freaky Beanie - 04-11-2019

Hi all,

I've been battling idle issues for quite a while on my 89, at first I had timing issues (fixed) then, I had ISC (electric) with a failed gasket (temporary fixed by adding an O-ring to the center orifice). I would also like to point out that I also repaired the ICU thanks to you (Fixkick) Now I can get the truck to idle fairly well 850 to 900 ish. The problem is that, it's with the idle screw all the way out (I'm assuming that, if I wouldn't have any issues, the idle screw set that way should stall the engine). As an experiment I closed the IAC (under the 3 bolts) with putty. This got my engine to not start without the gas pedal depressed. I was then able to get the engine to idle properly by setting the idle screw. I don't want to leave it like this as I don't think it's a fix and more of a diagnostic. I've ran the engine to temp and the plunger/valve seems to be pulled outwards (in the direction of the front of the truck). I've tested for vacuum leaks by pinching the hoses (idle didn't budge) and I've plugged the brake booster before the metal line (just for testing).
Now to my main question. Once the engine is to operating temperature, should the IAC valve be completely sealed? Does adding putty represent a proper IAC valve operation at operating temperature? And if I have a bad IAC what's my solution (as it's part if the TB).

Thanks


RE: Idle issue on an 89 sidekick 8v - fixkick - 04-11-2019

the 89 is a very old car, and all 8valves race idle if there are vacuum leaks, with full engine power, and no misfire with vacuum leaks.
850 is in spec, spec is 800 plus or minus 50. and only a real RPM meter can see true rpm the stock meter is a toy really and after 30 years old , wow.
ever seen any 89 car on the road, much less run like new.
the real test of idle RPM is load, with the hot engine, you turn on dash blower (heater) and head lamps at the same time and rpm holds, this is called idle regulation, and is ISC +ECU firmware (servo) controlled.
see red marked text.


(04-11-2019, 08:34 PM)Freaky Beanie Wrote: Hi all,

I've been battling idle issues for quite a while on my 89, at first I had timing issues (fixed) then, I had ISC (electric) with a failed gasket (temporary fixed by adding an O-ring to the center orifice). I would also like to point out that I also repaired the ICU thanks to you (Fixkick) Now I can get the truck to idle fairly well 850 to 900 ish. The problem is that, it's with the idle screw all the way out (I'm assuming(wrong) that, if I wouldn't have any issues, the idle screw set that way should stall the engine).
that screw Out closes the TV 100% and proves 100% you do have vacuum leaks.


As an experiment I closed the IAC (under the 3 bolts) with putty. This got my engine to not start without the gas pedal depressed. (NORmal)
what matters next is not COLD start, but a hot start.

I was then able to get the engine to idle properly by setting the idle screw. (TV ilde stop screw? if yes the IAC is bad, if water temp is 180F on hot start and the clay test proves the IAC leaks, there is no other answer, the IAC iS BAD. it closes at 150, you can take the TB off the car and put it in pan of water
and prove the IAC closes at 150F, if not it is bad, as many are this old, ever seen a 30 year old thermostat this old work, no , me neither.


I don't want to leave it like this as I don't think it's a fix and more of a diagnostic.
we have other like this, here, same problem , no spare good TB, so they added a vacuum valve to the dash called cold start, then when water hits.
150f they close the dash valve, ending the vacuum leak.


I've ran the engine to temp and the plunger/valve seems (where is this?) to be pulled outwards (in the direction of the front of the truck). I've tested for vacuum leaks by pinching the hoses (idle didn't budge) and I've plugged the brake booster before the metal line (just for testing).
Now to my main question.
Once the engine is to operating temperature, should the IAC valve be completely sealed? MY IAc PAGE COVERS EVER INCH OF IAC, FUNCTIONS.


Does adding putty represent a proper IAC valve operation at operating temperature? (OF COURSE IT DOES) SEE PHOTO BELOW.

And if I have a bad IAC what's my solution (as it's part if the TB). YES, PART OF TB, AND IS NOT SOLD SEPERATELY

Thanks


PHOTOS AND LINKS, 91 TB BUT THIS PART IS THE SAME.
Im the only one that did this, the 3 tests. using NUmber drill sets, shanks as feeler gauges.
hot water test, then refrigerator test, and last top grade freezer -10F


http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/tests/IAC-T-tests.html

[Image: IAC-Thermo1w.jpg]


see that ring inside it is threaded and turns, one could adjust it.
but if the wax pellet is inside is dead, or NON LINEAR, all hope is gone for it, same as any water thermostat does, old GOES BAD,

congrats on findind the true cause. good job, and testing done.



RE: Idle issue on an 89 sidekick 8v - fixkick - 04-11-2019

what is a plunger valve?
do you see a plunger valve here (sounds like a part off toilet tank? ) LOL

sorry you meant the DP, dash pot fast idle vacuum device. yes 100% retacted is always true after engine starts , after 3 to 15 seconds, (15 is ALASKA)
IN FACT THE DEVICE DP IS CALIBRATED, and on a running engine it is retracted and has gap (air gap there) so can not change idle ever , like that.

[Image: 90_EFI-1w.jpg]


RE: Idle issue on an 89 sidekick 8v - fixkick - 04-11-2019

note how all things Suzuki missed in that drawring I added.
3speed trans vacuum reg, can leak. or its hose.
the DP port to VSV can fail and missing in the drawing but I added it.
booster hose added by me, it sure can leak and belongs here. added.
the EGR base gasket leaks, or is missing or as many saw, 30 years later, the whole EGR casing cracked and sucks air like mad.
the 91 adds the air bleed screw.
the 91 adds water heating to the ISC valve not for it but to heat the whole TB up faster. 91 to 95 8v.
the 89 uses the throttle stop screw, instead of the bleed screw, making idle duty cycle calibration 10x more easy, in 1991. up


RE: Idle issue on an 89 sidekick 8v - fixkick - 04-11-2019

the TB is easy to test, off car, IAC.
wife at work.? Grin Wink
super easy, in pan of hot water.
even frying pan of hot water, with thermometer clamped to the pan, and at 150f it is 100%. closed.
are you sure you cars thermostat is good, or some goofy guy put in a silly 160F stat? (or none at all, OMG)
you could buy a 195 (or 193)F stat and run that and see if the IAC closes. (band aid fix)
or use the frying pan to learn exactly what temperature yours closes 100% super easy.
the cars gauges in the cluster are just toys, never use them to diagnose engines, use real measurement tools. gauges.
I use an IR gun, for $15 that works great.

to RAD tank after 20+ miles 100% fully hot engine.
then idled for 15mins.
[Image: rad-top.jpg]


RE: Idle issue on an 89 sidekick 8v - fixkick - 04-11-2019

the IAC will be dead if the water path flow to it is blocked,
running the wrong TB base gasket does that,

the gasket there is very complex.
ever seen this.?

my TB slide show covers all this.
http://www.fixkick.com/IDLE-AIR/Slide_Show/HTML/image_21.html
here is the SMP makers kit, it is easy to get the wrong gaskets, A/T car are different as are 89/90 and 91 to 95
top right is correct.
http://www.fixkick.com/IDLE-AIR/Slide_Show/HTML/image_36.html


and RULE 3, these hole must be blocked. 5 hole here must be gasket blocked or be hell to pay

http://www.fixkick.com/IDLE-AIR/Slide_Show/HTML/image_16.html


RE: Idle issue on an 89 sidekick 8v - fixkick - 04-11-2019

http://www.car-part.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi

see suzuki sidekick 89
see TBs/
chevy trackers show RARE as hens teeth./


RE: Idle issue on an 89 sidekick 8v - Freaky Beanie - 04-12-2019

First of all, I would like to say thanks for all your hard work and dedication.
This 89 sidekick is 30 Years old but i'm restoring it bit by bit. The engine has been fully rebuilt including all bearings and seals. the truck has almost 300000kms but since it came from BC Canada and was driven by an old lady it's shape is awesome. from BC it departed it's journey to NB Canada (4000+ kms) pulling a u haul. (That itself is amazing,and no I didn't drive it LOL).

See answers below in Blue


(04-11-2019, 10:20 PM)fixkick Wrote: the 89 is a very old car, and all 8valves race idle if there are vacuum leaks, with full engine power, and no misfire with vacuum leaks.
850 is in spec, spec is 800 plus or minus 50. and only a real RPM meter can see true rpm the stock meter is a toy really and after 30 years old , wow.I'm just going by the stock meter and by ear.
ever seen any 89 car on the road, much less run like new.
the real test of idle RPM is load, with the hot engine, you turn on dash blower (heater) and head lamps at the same time and rpm holds, this is called idle regulation, and is ISC +ECU firmware (servo) controlled. I will test this once I get the IAC fixed as I currently have no dash or switches in the truck (Only Speedo)
see red marked text.


(04-11-2019, 08:34 PM)Freaky Beanie Wrote: Hi all,

I've been battling idle issues for quite a while on my 89, at first I had timing issues (fixed) then, I had ISC (electric) with a failed gasket (temporary fixed by adding an O-ring to the center orifice). I would also like to point out that I also repaired the ICU thanks to you (Fixkick) Now I can get the truck to idle fairly well 850 to 900 ish. The problem is that, it's with the idle screw all the way out (I'm assuming(wrong) that, if I wouldn't have any issues, the idle screw set that way should stall the engine).
that screw Out closes the TV 100% and proves 100% you do have vacuum leaks. If IAC is bad and not closing, wouldn't it cause a vacuum leak?


As an experiment I closed the IAC (under the 3 bolts) with putty. This got my engine to not start without the gas pedal depressed. (NORmal)
what matters next is not COLD start, but a hot start.

I was then able to get the engine to idle properly by setting the idle screw. (TV ilde stop screw? if yes YES the IAC is bad, if water temp is 180F on hot start and the clay test proves the IAC leaks, there is no other answer, the IAC iS BAD. it closes at 150, you can take the TB off the car and put it in pan of water
and prove the IAC closes at 150F, if not it is bad, as many are this old, ever seen a 30 year old thermostat this old work, no , me neither.


I don't want to leave it like this as I don't think it's a fix and more of a diagnostic.
we have other like this, here, same problem , no spare good TB, so they added a vacuum valve to the dash called cold start, then when water hits.
150f they close the dash valve, ending the vacuum leak.
I would be interested in seeing some information on this. Is it automated by temp or timer?

I've ran the engine to temp and the plunger/valve seems (where is this?) (The IAC ) to be pulled outwards (in the direction of the front of the truck). I've tested for vacuum leaks by pinching the hoses (idle didn't budge) and I've plugged the brake booster before the metal line (just for testing).
Now to my main question.
Once the engine is to operating temperature, should the IAC valve be completely sealed? MY IAc PAGE COVERS EVER INCH OF IAC, FUNCTIONS.


Does adding putty represent a proper IAC valve operation at operating temperature? (OF COURSE IT DOES) SEE PHOTO BELOW.

And if I have a bad IAC what's my solution (as it's part if the TB). YES, PART OF TB, AND IS NOT SOLD SEPERATELY

Thanks


PHOTOS AND LINKS, 91 TB BUT THIS PART IS THE SAME.
Im the only one that did this, the 3 tests. using NUmber drill sets, shanks as feeler gauges.
hot water test, then refrigerator test, and last top grade freezer -10F


http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/tests/IAC-T-tests.html

[Image: IAC-Thermo1w.jpg]


see that ring inside it is threaded and turns, one could adjust it.
but if the wax pellet is inside is dead, or NON LINEAR, all hope is gone for it, same as any water thermostat does, old GOES BAD,

congrats on findind the true cause. good job, and testing done.
this ring, I wasn't aware. Maybe I could close it to get the unit to seal better when hot. the IAC is not sticking but I beleive that it does not expand like it did 30 years ago. [/color]



RE: Idle issue on an 89 sidekick 8v - Freaky Beanie - 04-12-2019

Haha Smile
by that I mean the IAC valve.

(04-11-2019, 10:28 PM)fixkick Wrote: what is a plunger valve?
do you see a plunger valve here (sounds like a part off toilet tank? ) LOL

sorry you meant the DP, dash pot fast idle vacuum device. yes 100% retacted is always true after engine starts , after 3 to 15 seconds, (15 is ALASKA)
IN FACT THE DEVICE DP IS CALIBRATED, and on a running engine it is retracted and has gap (air gap there) so can not change idle ever , like that.

[Image: 90_EFI-1w.jpg]



RE: Idle issue on an 89 sidekick 8v - Freaky Beanie - 04-12-2019

(04-11-2019, 10:35 PM)fixkick Wrote: note how all things Suzuki missed in that drawring I added.
3speed trans vacuum reg, can leak. or its hose. Mine is Manual.
the DP port to VSV can fail and missing in the drawing but I added it.
booster hose added by me, it sure can leak and belongs here. added. I closed this off for testing
the EGR base gasket leaks, or is missing or as many saw, 30 years later, the whole EGR casing cracked and sucks air like mad. I checked
this gasket and it looked ok. No signs of wear.

the 91 adds the air bleed screw.
the 91 adds water heating to the ISC valve not for it but to heat the whole TB up faster. 91 to 95 8v.
the 89 uses the throttle stop screw, instead of the bleed screw, making idle duty cycle calibration 10x more easy, in 1991. up yes 91 and up, this screw shouldn't be
touched Smile