+- Car Repair Forum (https://fixkick.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Suzuki (https://fixkick.com/forum/forum-suzuki)
+--- Forum: Sidekick/Tracker (https://fixkick.com/forum/forum-sidekick-tracker)
+--- Thread: 97 Sidekick Sport 1.8L - CUTS OUT AT 1/4 THROTTLE (/thread-97-sidekick-sport-1-8l-cuts-out-at-1-4-throttle)
RE: 97 Sidekick Sport 1.8L - CUTS OUT AT 1/4 THROTTLE - fixkick - 02-08-2017
keep in mind, your car works just like all MPI cars,, made. 100s of millions. l
the new cars learn the TPS, my JEEP has over, 10 learn modes,
but back in 1996-98 , the shop just sets this sensor. its just a one time deal, doing that, the left for ever.
The voltage only must not drop below 0.3 or go to the +rail, (5v)see? its not precision at all
the ecu watches how fast you move the throttle pedal to evoke, enrich mode. to avoid micro bogging.
it's a problem today (old suzukis,toyotas ,etc)
as many shop forgot all this old ways, the look and scratch head, and too lazy to RTM, read the manual,,
one person here is searching now in the whole stated of OHIO to find a mech, that can 1: read, and 2: use a feeler gage.(G16)
2 lost arts
on going for 1 full year, this saga.
owner hands the offical PDF from SUZUKI, to the mech, 2 pages only.
and they pitch it in the trash, one more wasted trip and one more $200 bill for nothing gained. (sad no?)
DTC set , yelling TP pin failing for 1 full year. (the ECU never lies about this)
if you dont have TP errors , best is to leave it alone.
how ever, most TP glitches are ignored. by ECU and do cause problems, a bad TPS this is. all do that like at 200k miles
depends on cars use.
the sensor is sold by SMP( at top brand,aftermarket)
1996-98 1.8L DOHC = TH237
heads up ,Suzuki sells only the whole throttle body to attain 1 TPS and 1 MAF, $1500 , plus tax, ship and long delays
so keep that in mind.
RE: 97 Sidekick Sport 1.8L - CUTS OUT AT 1/4 THROTTLE - rasmeidirt - 02-09-2017
0.18v with engine hot.
Calibration can be made only counterclockwise.
But the vol would not change!
RE: 97 Sidekick Sport 1.8L - CUTS OUT AT 1/4 THROTTLE - fixkick - 02-09-2017
so is the 5v pin 5volts?
gray-red wire?
it just 3 pins
what are the 3 voltages key on.
from these facts,we can progress. easy
there are 3 paths (we know its failing but why,,, not yet)
list:
lost power
bad tps
tps installed and not indexed (means stuffed on blind,not aligning the pins correctly inside.
if you just read the 3 pin voltages, we know fast.
if the 5vdc power is ok, we then remove tps, see if its indexed wrong. (pins inside)
if seem ok, then turn the tps ,inernal, knob. will allow TP pin Gray to swing 0 to 5vdc in hand ,key on. connected.
see this suzuki book photo showing how to index the TPS
http://www.fixkick.com/sensors/TPS/TPS96-98a.jpg
it must not be ,just thrown on blind, the 2 pins, mate, up.
otherwise its all wonkey, and useless.
cheers, and good luck
RE: 97 Sidekick Sport 1.8L - CUTS OUT AT 1/4 THROTTLE - fixkick - 02-10-2017
pulling the dome fuse, resets ECU stored DTC ERRORS
DOME is , ecu and tcm memory power.
RE: 97 Sidekick Sport 1.8L - CUTS OUT AT 1/4 THROTTLE - MtTrails - 02-12-2017
The TPS checks out fine. Gray/Black to ground - Idle position .5V and smooth transition all the way to WOT 3.6V. I also checked for vacuum leaks using starter fluid and found none.
RE: 97 Sidekick Sport 1.8L - CUTS OUT AT 1/4 THROTTLE - fixkick - 02-12-2017
why not keep a running list? (correct my errors please)
how many miles on engine?????????????????????????
1: how long has it been,since a daily driver?, running correctly not misfiring,(or is it really bogging , the former is violent, later smooth)
1a: i presume the hot engine misfire,ends with right foot, pressed hard, at misfire? yes. (really helps to know this)
1b: i think the WOT is ok, engine misfires or bogs and WOT cures that. now. and engine has full power hot. "pedal to the metal"
2: ever had bad fuel in last fuel years or car sat, long long time,unused.?
3: runs fine cold no misfire. (one post says?)
3: got one P0301 (front cyl. misfire code) now gone, but pending codes not checked. every day,to see what POPS up.
keep in mind this car loves to reset misfires fast, or not store them. that is WHY PENDINGS aRE SO important on this car.
OBD2 Scan too Pendings are marginal errors. DTCs and key checks on all cares.
a 4wd car the misfire rules are desensitized, for offroad usage, (knowing that fact, puts me ALL oVER PENDINGS)
4: compression great over 180 pSI.
5: 4 new spark plugs, gaped on high end 32 thou,. repeats 2nd set, they look ok, no funny looking tips
6: maf in TB cleaned . check.
7: no air (vacuum) leaks, from TB rear mount to engine. head.
8: one new cop, front #1,
9: 3 old boots (if original circa 1997,IMO, a hopeless thing)
10, front 02 sensor, my guess,1997, one more hopeless thing, if true, 100k mile rated, never ever 300k+ lasting.
11:no 02 scans, live ,hot idle.... plotted scans best, voltage over time plots, all good scan tools do this,if not tool is TOY
12, no longterm fuel trim readings, LTFT, scans... (seen on all scan tools worth salt)
13; does ECT read 180f in the scan tool? hot engine? does it warm up in 5miles,driving or takes forever,to warm up.?
14:does scan tool show closed loop status , at idle,? hot idle 180f hot? it must, '
15: does scan too show, closed loop status, driven gently on flat road,hot, right foot steady say 30 to 45mph? a must.
16:trick time!, unplug the front 02sensor. ignore the many B1S1 0xy sensor errors, now, and CEL now. drive.
does car drive ok now>? cold and hot, yes,then 02 may be DEAD. or worse, yes worse can happen.(heater to cell shorts)
17: can you make the engine misfire,hot or cold, parked, this I always check,because fixing cars in the drive way is 10x more easy.
gunning it.? if car is A/t trans, one can do the 3 second, transmission stall tests, "Classical" to see if it misfires, parked in DRIVE
brakes hard set. ever do that? this is a transmission test, in all books in print.
it allows the tech,to get engine symptoms, here, 3seconds stalled, RPM check, then let trans reset for 4min, repeat.
see of DTC'S SET NOW, or pendings, did I say pendings/?
18; the add propane trick, (later) force rich.
19; the lie to PFR trick.(forced rich trick)
20: fuel pressure never checked. (try to know pressure can drop dynamically , (bad)
21:fuel filter and air filter both 20 years old? i bet 3 boots are. if yes, why?
22: a full set of injector tests. leak down , balance tests but is part of the fuel pressure tests. and FPR tests. (over 10 tests, with one tool)
if engine seems hard to start, for sure,hot restarts,say on a beer run to 7/11? leaking injectors can be it.
links
stall test
http://www.fixkick.com/slush-pump.html#Stall
video
(checks trans stall, and MAF same time, 20grams /sec maf air low, live and RPM is the trans stall test here. 2000 RPM is stall test pass here.
if trans slipped, RPM goes nuts high.
see what a real scan tool does ?,this one is a circa 1995, tool. on PALM RELIC, JUST TO SHOW , IT CAN BE DONE.
On the road I can hit, MAF 55gr/sec by flogging car up a nice hill, WOT>
that is mAF air flow, mass per seconds, J18 or J16b engines. if engine misfires now,,well, bingo.. we do all tests, here and now, parked.
http://www.fixkick.com/videos/FLV-all/showtime.html#MAF
RE: 97 Sidekick Sport 1.8L - CUTS OUT AT 1/4 THROTTLE - fixkick - 02-12-2017
what happens many times
we do 100 tests.... you name it ,all
then find 4 bad cop boots
you can in fact spend $1000 shop labor, doing that.... skipping past spark bad. step 2
or use a spark live scope tester and see if spark misfires.and why, every time,.
1 engine good
2 sparks good?
3 we check all fueling and find its ok. back to spark. (we can not trust the ECU to tell you this,,, the ECU is only a limited tool)
if a boot or coil is bad
the plasma is wrong, we can see actual spark plasma burning fuel
we can see which cylinders misfire, and WHY with a scope, 1961 to now, (SUN-300 then)
that is why most shops try new boots first, knowing full well, no human on earth can see the rubber boot molecular degeneration using only their eyes. (unless driven a full year misfiring and look burned up now... )
in the OLD days,seen distributor caps carbon tracked (shorts)WHERE no human can find... spark can do that. all HV systems can.
I call it boots.bad
if i drove it and felt true misfire.
but I cant drive,it, and tell if its misfire or microbogs. (micro bogs are transitory lean fuel starvation)
the real question is,how diagnose cars, with no tools
hard, very hard. (guess away?)
RE: 97 Sidekick Sport 1.8L - CUTS OUT AT 1/4 THROTTLE - MtTrails - 02-13-2017
(02-12-2017, 10:26 PM)fixkick Wrote: why not keep a running list? (correct my errors please)
how many miles on engine?????????????????????????
1: how long has it been,since a daily driver?, running correctly not misfiring,(or is it really bogging , the former is violent, later smooth) 5 MONTHS - I DO NOT DRIVE THIS VEHICLE EVRY DAY
1a: i presume the hot engine misfire,ends with right foot, pressed hard, at misfire? yes. (really helps to know this) MOST OF THE TIME, SOMETIMES NOT
1b: i think the WOT is ok, engine misfires or bogs and WOT cures that. now. and engine has full power hot. "pedal to the metal" Most of the time
2: ever had bad fuel in last fuel years or car sat, long long time,unused.? NO
3: runs fine cold no misfire. (one post says?) NO, MISFIRES AT ANY ENGINE TEMP
3: got one P0301 (front cyl. misfire code) now gone, but pending codes not checked. every day,to see what POPS up.
keep in mind this car loves to reset misfires fast, or not store them. that is WHY PENDINGS aRE SO important on this car. I NOW HAVE A LIVE DATA SCANNER AND WILL CHECK EVERY TIME I DRIVE IT
OBD2 Scan too Pendings are marginal errors. DTCs and key checks on all cares.
a 4wd car the misfire rules are desensitized, for offroad usage, (knowing that fact, puts me ALL oVER PENDINGS) MISFIRES ON ALL ROADS
4: compression great over 180PSI. YES
5: 4 new spark plugs, gaped on high end 32 thou,. repeats 2nd set, they look ok, no funny looking tips. TRUE
6: maf in TB cleaned . check.
7: no air (vacuum) leaks, from TB rear mount to engine. head. NO LEAKS
8: one new cop, front #1, ORDERED 3 MORE NEW COP'S TODAY
9: 3 old boots (if original circa 1997,IMO, a hopeless thing) ORDERED 3 MORE NEW COP'S TODAY
10, front 02 sensor, my guess,1997, one more hopeless thing, if true, 100k mile rated, never ever 300k+ lasting.
11:no 02 scans, live ,hot idle.... plotted scans best, voltage over time plots, all good scan tools do this,if not tool is TOY I WLL ATTEMPT TO GET THE DATA OFF MY SCANNER AND POST HERE. THIS IS THE MORE EXPENSIVE TOOL I PURCHASED WITH MODE 6 - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007XE5LTG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
12, no longterm fuel trim readings, LTFT, scans... (seen on all scan tools worth salt) WILL ATTEMPT TO POST THIS INFO
13; does ECT read 180f in the scan tool? hot engine? does it warm up in 5miles,driving or takes forever,to warm up.? SEEMS NORMAL
14:does scan tool show closed loop status , at idle,? hot idle 180f hot? it must, '
15: does scan too show, closed loop status, driven gently on flat road,hot, right foot steady say 30 to 45mph? a must. NOT SURE
16:trick time!, unplug the front 02sensor. ignore the many B1S1 0xy sensor errors, now, and CEL now. drive. WHERE IS THIS SENSOR LOCATED?
does car drive ok now>? cold and hot, yes,then 02 may be DEAD. or worse, yes worse can happen.(heater to cell shorts)
17: can you make the engine misfire,hot or cold, parked, this I always check,because fixing cars in the drive way is 10x more easy. NO
gunning it.? if car is A/t trans, one can do the 3 second, transmission stall tests, "Classical" to see if it misfires, parked in DRIVE
brakes hard set. ever do that? this is a transmission test, in all books in print. I WILL TRY THIS
it allows the tech,to get engine symptoms, here, 3seconds stalled, RPM check, then let trans reset for 4min, repeat.
see of DTC'S SET NOW, or pendings, did I say pendings/?
18; the add propane trick, (later) force rich.
19; the lie to PFR trick.(forced rich trick)
20: fuel pressure never checked. (try to know pressure can drop dynamically , (bad)
21:fuel filter and air filter both 20 years old? i bet 3 boots are. if yes, why? NEW FUEL AND AIR FILTERS
22: a full set of injector tests. leak down , balance tests but is part of the fuel pressure tests. and FPR tests. (over 10 tests, with one tool) HAVE NOT TRIED TESTING INJECTORS
if engine seems hard to start, for sure,hot restarts,say on a beer run to 7/11? leaking injectors can be it. ENGINE IS EASY TO START HOT OR COLD
links
stall test
http://www.fixkick.com/slush-pump.html#Stall WILL CHECK IT OUT
video
(checks trans stall, and MAF same time, 20grams /sec maf air low, live and RPM is the trans stall test here. 2000 RPM is stall test pass here. MAF VOLTAGE CHECKS OK
if trans slipped, RPM goes nuts high. NO TRANSMISSION SLIPPAGE[/color]
see what a real scan tool does ?,this one is a circa 1995, tool. on PALM RELIC, JUST TO SHOW , IT CAN BE DONE.
On the road I can hit, MAF 55gr/sec by flogging car up a nice hill, WOT>
that is mAF air flow, mass per seconds, J18 or J16b engines. if engine misfires now,,well, bingo.. we do all tests, here and now, parked.
http://www.fixkick.com/videos/FLV-all/showtime.html#MAF
RE: 97 Sidekick Sport 1.8L - CUTS OUT AT 1/4 THROTTLE - fixkick - 02-13-2017
nice tool, one of the very best in the cheap, category, (an Innova is about $160)
i have one, the older version, this one is a good china model, much improved, can plot live 02 readings graph mode, nice.
how old is front 02,
if original, it cant be good. not now.
the sensor is on front of cat, side.
B1S1 means bank1 sensor 1, 4 banger has 1 bank and S1 is on the tail end of the exhaust header,called front 02
leave the rear of cat sensor alone, waste money to touch it, until p0421 happen and smog man nasty
i see your tool has review data button,nice.
Even reads, records and plays back live sensor data !!!!
can display Freeze Frame data
and pending codes as well
looks good
and will plot 02, says so... like mine does. older.
do not flash up grade this tool, unless the maker ask you to...seen many do this and kill the tool dead.
that is a lot of bang for the buck.
good luck
RE: 97 Sidekick Sport 1.8L - CUTS OUT AT 1/4 THROTTLE - fixkick - 02-13-2017
how'd you like my review?
good?>
i missed a few, but we have it all on one page now
what is miles on engine?